If you love Jews, then you need to convert them http://blogs.jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/if-you-love-jews-then-you-need-to-convert-them/ Stan Guthrie makes the case in Christianity Today for evangelizing Jews: I love and respect the Jewish people and their faith. After all, Jesus was a Jew, and Christianity is firmly rooted in the Hebrew Scriptures. Certainly the Holocaust and the church’s horrific anti-Semitism have changed the context for evangelism. We have much for which to apologize. But we cannot apologize for the gospel, which is Good News for Jewish people precisely because they—like all human beings—need Jesus. en-us aeden@jta.org Copyright 2008 2008-03-25T;16:57:43-05:00 Comment by sprosenfeld@ayhoo.com Yes, Exactly. This is the Sole excuse for your religion. You have been brainwashed by thee best: TV. Society. Community. Live for a life, as a real Jewish person. By the way, it is offensive to call us by JEW, Mr. Christ. We are Jewish or Yiddish, or Hebrew or any of the above. Get with our Prograam.  Simple and Sweet, we love our roots, we know where it is that we come from and where it is that we go to. You cannot say the same. You subscribe through ignorance of a man-made religious farce, oops, force. Your spew from your mind is not fresh and new idealism. Better for you to remain on your own’s Reservation. Do not do us, as yours has done to the vast peoples of the globe. I ask that you de-program and re-awaken, but only as a Jewish Person. Yes, Exactly. This is the Sole excuse for your religion. You have been brainwashed by thee best: TV. Society. Community.

Live for a life, as a real Jewish person. By the way, it is offensive to call us by JEW, Mr. Christ. We are Jewish or Yiddish, or Hebrew or any of the above. Get with our Prograam.  Simple and Sweet, we love our roots, we know where it is that we come from and where it is that we go to. You cannot say the same. You subscribe through ignorance of a man-made religious farce, oops, force. Your spew from your mind is not fresh and new idealism. Better for you to remain on your own’s Reservation. Do not do us, as yours has done to the vast peoples of the globe. I ask that you de-program and re-awaken, but only as a Jewish Person.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by jplunk@bellsouth.net Is there anyone on the planet now that hasn’t been offered the chance to convert to Christianity?  How thick does the Gospel need to be spread already?  Just like peanut butter, it can (and has been) spread too thick.  Now we’re choking on it. Is there anyone on the planet now that hasn’t been offered the chance to convert to Christianity?  How thick does the Gospel need to be spread already?  Just like peanut butter, it can (and has been) spread too thick.  Now we’re choking on it.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by prosur@attglobal.net By claiming to have superceeded judaism, christianity has placed itself in a position whereby the mere and continued existence of judaism poses a direct and existential threat to its faith. It has therefore a strong inducement to desire and even expect the end of judaism. The words of Stan Guthrie and of many others who throughout the ages have argued for the dissapearence of judaism, often in more sinister ways, are simply a consequence of this. Christianity is antisemitc by virtue of its own theology. Gilberto Sarfaty By claiming to have superceeded judaism, christianity has placed itself in a position whereby the mere and continued existence of judaism poses a direct and existential threat to its faith. It has therefore a strong inducement to desire and even expect the end of judaism. The words of Stan Guthrie and of many others who throughout the ages have argued for the dissapearence of judaism, often in more sinister ways, are simply a consequence of this.
Christianity is antisemitc by virtue of its own theology.

Gilberto Sarfaty

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by cfeinson@dcpca.org Hate me.  Please.  Seriously. Hate me.  Please.  Seriously.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by kawust@gmx.de I just want to reply (late) on that, what Brucy comments on Jesus. There are no contexutell mistakes here. If you would study the context when Jesus said the first thing (Matth. 5.38ff) and in John than you would agree that the other does not have anything to do with the other.  Its like puzzeling two different puzzles and trying to fix the one peace into the other puzzle. Please study the book of Romans and the book of Hebrews and every Jew will agree, that there is a messiah who was already on earth and as the Jews still waits for the messiah the same will come and will tell them that he was already on earth. I just want to reply (late) on that, what Brucy comments on Jesus.
There are no contexutell mistakes here. If you would study the context when Jesus said the first thing (Matth. 5.38ff) and in John than you would agree that the other does not have anything to do with the other.  Its like puzzeling two different puzzles and trying to fix the one peace into the other puzzle.
Please study the book of Romans and the book of Hebrews and every Jew will agree, that there is a messiah who was already on earth and as the Jews still waits for the messiah the same will come and will tell them that he was already on earth.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by ramab18@yahoo.com Please note: My original comment was ascribed to another and my name was signed to two comments which were not my own Following is my opinion. I hope the site gets it right this time. As long as attempts to prosyletize aggressively are not backed up by coercion they do not, in my view, constitute an act of war. They do disqualify the prosyletizers from engaging in interreligious dialogue, in which all parties must accept the religious integrity of the others. I wonder if many Jews react so explosively to attempts to evangelize us because of their own ambivalence to our tradition and its practices. I think our response to Christian evangelization should be multi-faceted. We should actively expose and oppose any effort which is state-sponsored, coercive, manipulative or fraudulent. At the same time we must recognize that for the first time in two millenia we live in a society which is a free marketplace of ideas. As evangelizing Christians have the right to tout their wares so do we. I am convinced that our goods are better for us and for many others. It is long overdue for our community to be pro-active in the area of informing the masses about Judaism and supporting community based basic Jewish studies programs which may lead to conversion. I predict, that such an approach will not only yield the obvious benefits of increased numbers becoming aware of our tradition and possibly joining our ranks, but might also have a salutary effect upon born Jews, who are indifferent to Yiddishkeit, once they see how interested others are in the birthright they spurn. Rabbi Moses A. Birnbaum, DD Please note: My original comment was ascribed to another and my name was signed to two comments which were not my own Following is my opinion. I hope the site gets it right this time.

As long as attempts to prosyletize aggressively are not backed up by coercion they do not, in my view, constitute an act of war. They do disqualify the prosyletizers from engaging in interreligious dialogue, in which all parties must accept the religious integrity of the others.

I wonder if many Jews react so explosively to attempts to evangelize us because of their own ambivalence to our tradition and its practices.

I think our response to Christian evangelization should be multi-faceted. We should actively expose and oppose any effort which is state-sponsored, coercive, manipulative or fraudulent. At the same time we must recognize that for the first time in two millenia we live in a society which is a free marketplace of ideas. As evangelizing Christians have the right to tout their wares so do we. I am convinced that our goods are better for us and for many others.

It is long overdue for our community to be pro-active in the area of informing the masses about Judaism and supporting community based basic Jewish studies programs which may lead to conversion.

I predict, that such an approach will not only yield the obvious benefits of increased numbers becoming aware of our tradition and possibly joining our ranks, but might also have a salutary effect upon born Jews, who are indifferent to Yiddishkeit, once they see how interested others are in the birthright they spurn.

Rabbi Moses A. Birnbaum, DD

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by ramab18@yahoo.com Please note: My original comment was ascribed to another and my name was signed to a comment to which I do not subscribe. Following is my opinion. I hope the site gets it right this time. As long as attempts to prosyletize aggressively are not backed up by coercion they do not, in my view, constitute an act of war. They do disqualify the prosyletizers from engaging in interreligious dialogue, in which all parties must accept the religious integrity of the others. I wonder if many Jews react so explosively to attempts to evangelize us because of their own ambivalence to our tradition and its practices. I think our response to Christian evangelization should be multi-faceted. We should actively expose and oppose any effort which is state-sponsored, coercive, manipulative or fraudulent. At the same time we must recognize that for the first time in two millenia we live in a society which is a free marketplace of ideas. As evangelizing Christians have the right to tout their wares so do we. I am convinced that our goods are better for us and for many others. It is long overdue for our community to be pro-active in the area of informing the masses about Judaism and supporting community based basic Jewish studies programs which may lead to conversion. I predict, that such an approach will not only yield the obvious benefits of increased numbers becoming aware of our tradition and possibly joining our ranks, but might also have a salutary effect upon born Jews, who are indifferent to Yiddishkei, once they see how interested others are in the birthright they spurn. Please note: My original comment was ascribed to another and my name was signed to a comment to which I do not subscribe. Following is my opinion. I hope the site gets it right this time.

As long as attempts to prosyletize aggressively are not backed up by coercion they do not, in my view, constitute an act of war. They do disqualify the prosyletizers from engaging in interreligious dialogue, in which all parties must accept the religious integrity of the others.

I wonder if many Jews react so explosively to attempts to evangelize us because of their own ambivalence to our tradition and its practices.

I think our response to Christian evangelization should be multi-faceted. We should actively expose and oppose any effort which is state-sponsored, coercive, manipulative or fraudulent. At the same time we must recognize that for the first time in two millenia we live in a society which is a free marketplace of ideas. As evangelizing Christians have the right to tout their wares so do we. I am convinced that our goods are better for us and for many others.

It is long overdue for our community to be pro-active in the area of informing the masses about Judaism and supporting community based basic Jewish studies programs which may lead to conversion.

I predict, that such an approach will not only yield the obvious benefits of increased numbers becoming aware of our tradition and possibly joining our ranks, but might also have a salutary effect upon born Jews, who are indifferent to Yiddishkei, once they see how interested others are in the birthright they spurn.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by mark@yahoo.com i dont understand i dont understand

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by trazom8@aol.com Just as a couple of simple examples of the discordant nature of the foundations of Christianity:  1. Jesus taught “do not resist an evil person, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.” (Matthew 5:38-39).  But in John 18:22-23, Jesus is slapped across the face by a soldier, and Jesus then says to him: “If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if I spoke well, why do you strike me?” In other words, when actually put to the test, rather than meekly “turning the other cheek,” Jesus argues with the soldier.  Jesus himself does not follow his own teaching.  2. Jesus is said to have taught “forgiveness.” However, when confronted with the reality of Judas’ betrayal, Jesus said: “but woe to that man by whom the son of man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born!” (Matthew 26:24).  In other words, rather than living up to his teaching of forgiveness, when put to the test, Jesus himself was vindictive and unforgiving.  What kind of foundation of a religion is that?  There are many similar examples.  Read the book. Just as a couple of simple examples of the discordant nature of the foundations of Christianity:  1. Jesus taught “do not resist an evil person, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.” (Matthew 5:38-39).  But in John 18:22-23, Jesus is slapped across the face by a soldier, and Jesus then says to him: “If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if I spoke well, why do you strike me?” In other words, when actually put to the test, rather than meekly “turning the other cheek,” Jesus argues with the soldier.  Jesus himself does not follow his own teaching.  2. Jesus is said to have taught “forgiveness.” However, when confronted with the reality of Judas’ betrayal, Jesus said: “but woe to that man by whom the son of man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born!” (Matthew 26:24).  In other words, rather than living up to his teaching of forgiveness, when put to the test, Jesus himself was vindictive and unforgiving.  What kind of foundation of a religion is that?  There are many similar examples.  Read the book.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by trazom8@aol.com To Mr. Ralph Gaily, your posts are a prime example of out-of-context quotes that Christians mistakenly believe somehow support their claims.  You quote Psalm 22 as “they pierced my hands and my feet.” However, this is a classic mistranslation from the original Hebrew when the Torah was rewritten into Greek.  The original Hebrew word “ka’are” means “like a lion.” Christian scribes mistranslated that word into “they pierced...” The two words are similar, but obviously the meaning is totally different.  Similar mistranslations and misunderstandings affect every Christian claim of support.  Your quotes from Isaiah are not referring to Jesus but the Jewish people as a whole.  You are quoting isolated paragraphs without really understanding the context.  That’s emblematic of the entire foundation of Christianity.  Your best bet is to get the book I referenced above ("Twenty-Six Reasons Why Jews Don’t Believe in Jesus” by Asher Norman), and learn something about your own religion and beliefs.  You’re in for quite a shock, probably a life-changing one. To Mr. Ralph Gaily, your posts are a prime example of out-of-context quotes that Christians mistakenly believe somehow support their claims.  You quote Psalm 22 as “they pierced my hands and my feet.” However, this is a classic mistranslation from the original Hebrew when the Torah was rewritten into Greek.  The original Hebrew word “ka’are” means “like a lion.” Christian scribes mistranslated that word into “they pierced...” The two words are similar, but obviously the meaning is totally different.  Similar mistranslations and misunderstandings affect every Christian claim of support.  Your quotes from Isaiah are not referring to Jesus but the Jewish people as a whole.  You are quoting isolated paragraphs without really understanding the context.  That’s emblematic of the entire foundation of Christianity.  Your best bet is to get the book I referenced above ("Twenty-Six Reasons Why Jews Don’t Believe in Jesus” by Asher Norman), and learn something about your own religion and beliefs.  You’re in for quite a shock, probably a life-changing one.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by trazom8@aol.com All Christians must read “Twenty-Six Reasons Why the Jews Don’t Believe in Jesus” by Asher Norman.  This book explains in very clear terms why Christianity is a false religion based on misconceptions, mistranslations, out-of-context quotes from the Torah, blendings of beliefs from pagan tradition, and outright lies.  In particular, it seems that the supernatural nature of Jesus was harvested from the stories of the pagan mystery religions of Isis, Mithras and Dionysus, who were all similar god-men born of virgins, all strongly believed by the pagans of the time.  This book demonstrates that Jesus was a false prophet.  All Christians, and all Jews, must read this book.  It shows that, if anyone should be converting, it should be Christians converting to Judaism, the only true religion, and the best guide to salvation. All Christians must read “Twenty-Six Reasons Why the Jews Don’t Believe in Jesus” by Asher Norman.  This book explains in very clear terms why Christianity is a false religion based on misconceptions, mistranslations, out-of-context quotes from the Torah, blendings of beliefs from pagan tradition, and outright lies.  In particular, it seems that the supernatural nature of Jesus was harvested from the stories of the pagan mystery religions of Isis, Mithras and Dionysus, who were all similar god-men born of virgins, all strongly believed by the pagans of the time.  This book demonstrates that Jesus was a false prophet.  All Christians, and all Jews, must read this book.  It shows that, if anyone should be converting, it should be Christians converting to Judaism, the only true religion, and the best guide to salvation.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by ralphcv@sbcglobal.net “ He hath no form or comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.  He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and aquainted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised and we esteemed him not......  and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all......  He was numbered with the transgressors: and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.” ..... “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a LAMB to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.” Isaiah 53 “ ...It is the sacrafice of the LORD’S Passover.....” Exodus 12 “ He hath no form or comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.  He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and aquainted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised and we esteemed him not......  and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all......  He was numbered with the transgressors: and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.” ..... “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a LAMB to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.” Isaiah 53 “ ...It is the sacrafice of the LORD’S Passover.....” Exodus 12

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by ralphcv@sbcglobal.net “As many were astonied at thee : His visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men”.  Isaiah 52 “As many were astonied at thee : His visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men”.  Isaiah 52

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by ralphcv@sbcglobal.net “ I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to those that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.” Isaiah 50 “ I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to those that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.” Isaiah 50

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by rqamabb18@yahoo.com As long as attempts to prosyletize aggressively are not backed up by coercion they do not, in my view, constitute an act of war. They do disqualify the prosyletizers from engaging in interreligious dialogue, in which all parties must accept the religious integrity of the others. I wonder if many Jews react so explosively to attempts to evangelize us because of their own ambivalence to our tradition and its practices. I think our response to Christian evangelization should be multi-faceted. We should actively expose and oppose any effort which is state-sponsored, coercive, manipulative or fraudulent. At the same time we must recognize that for the first time in two millenia we live in a society which is a free marketplace of ideas. As evangelizing Christians have the right to tout their wares so do we. I am convinced that or goods are better for us a nd for many others. It is long overdue for our community to be pro-active in the area of informing the masses about Judaism and supporting community based basic Jewish studies programs which may lead to conversion. I predict, that such an approach will not only yield the obvious benefits of increased numbers becoming aware of our tradition and possibly joining our ranks, but will also have a salutary of born Jews who are indifferent to Yiddishkei, once they see how interested others are in the birthright they spurn. As long as attempts to prosyletize aggressively are not backed up by coercion they do not, in my view, constitute an act of war. They do disqualify the prosyletizers from engaging in interreligious dialogue, in which all parties must accept the religious integrity of the others.

I wonder if many Jews react so explosively to attempts to evangelize us because of their own ambivalence to our tradition and its practices.

I think our response to Christian evangelization should be multi-faceted. We should actively expose and oppose any effort which is state-sponsored, coercive, manipulative or fraudulent. At the same time we must recognize that for the first time in two millenia we live in a society which is a free marketplace of ideas. As evangelizing Christians have the right to tout their wares so do we. I am convinced that or goods are better for us a nd for many others.

It is long overdue for our community to be pro-active in the area of informing the masses about Judaism and supporting community based basic Jewish studies programs which may lead to conversion.

I predict, that such an approach will not only yield the obvious benefits of increased numbers becoming aware of our tradition and possibly joining our ranks, but will also have a salutary of born Jews who are indifferent to Yiddishkei, once they see how interested others are in the birthright they spurn.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by cbmiller@cometlink.com Christians ought to keep their religion to and for themselves. Get over it, not everyone needs or wants to be a Christian. Christians ought to keep their religion to and for themselves. Get over it, not everyone needs or wants to be a Christian.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by hersh75@msn.com Good news,I assume like the Crusades, the Inquisition, pogroms, the expulsion of our ancestors from Spain, Portugal, England...why elaborate.  If Christians really want to convert me, try occasionally acting like good Jews...like Jesus, for example.  Otherwise, leave me alone to practice the same religion that Jesus did.  Remember the hymn “ Give Me That Old Time Religion” ?  It went on to tell us it was good enough for Pappy, it was good enough for Mammy..and let’s agree it was good enough for Jesus of Nazareth.  Any Christians ready to convert to the religion of Jesus?  What is it called?  Oh yes, Judaism. Good news,I assume like the Crusades, the Inquisition, pogroms, the expulsion of our ancestors from Spain, Portugal, England...why elaborate.  If Christians really want to convert me, try occasionally acting like good Jews...like Jesus, for example.  Otherwise, leave me alone to practice the same religion that Jesus did.  Remember the hymn “ Give Me That Old Time Religion” ?  It went on to tell us it was good enough for Pappy, it was good enough for Mammy..and let’s agree it was good enough for Jesus of Nazareth.  Any Christians ready to convert to the religion of Jesus?  What is it called?  Oh yes, Judaism.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by NancyDudwick@SBCglobal.net We Jews don’t want to be converted.  As a Jew I am quite satisfied with my own religion. We Jews don’t want to be converted.  As a Jew I am quite satisfied with my own religion.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by edgup18@comcast.net What is it about Evangelicals that they feel compelled to “help” us Jews?  If any other group (think Muslims) were converting Christians in this or any other country, there would be (justifiable) outrage.  One person’s “good word” is another’s pest!  Leave us alone and I promise you we’ll leave you alone.  That’s a “good word” we can all approve of! What is it about Evangelicals that they feel compelled to “help” us Jews?  If any other group (think Muslims) were converting Christians in this or any other country, there would be (justifiable) outrage.  One person’s “good word” is another’s pest!  Leave us alone and I promise you we’ll leave you alone.  That’s a “good word” we can all approve of!

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by develinjones@hotamil.com I agree with Dr. Berger. Jesus would not be in a church. He was Jewish.  When I hear Christians speak of Jews needing Jesus, this saddens me for the reason of seeming, Christians seem to have a self hate otherwise they would except Judaism. Christianity seems to me to be a “diverted” belief away from its foundation, Judaism. Douglas I agree with Dr. Berger. Jesus would not be in a church. He was Jewish.  When I hear Christians speak of Jews needing Jesus, this saddens me for the reason of seeming, Christians seem to have a self hate otherwise they would except Judaism. Christianity seems to me to be a “diverted” belief away from its foundation, Judaism.

Douglas

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by jplunk@bellsouth.net I second Dr. Berger. I second Dr. Berger.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by ralphcv@sbcglobal.net “.......they pierced my hands and my feet”.  Psalm 22 “.......they pierced my hands and my feet”.  Psalm 22

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by shel.berger428@verizon.net Why is this garbage in the JTA newsletter? I’m ready to cancel. Why is this garbage in the JTA newsletter? I’m ready to cancel.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by b1ss3l@yahoo.com John, If Jesus were alive today, you’d find him in a synagogue - not a church. He wouldn’t have a clue what a “church” is. So, maybe good enough for him should be good enough for you............. John,

If Jesus were alive today, you’d find him in a synagogue - not a church.
He wouldn’t have a clue what a “church” is.
So, maybe good enough for him should be good enough for you.............

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by gerard6324@rogers.com I consider evangelizing as sharing good news. One may take it or leave it. That is why Jesus was on the move all the time - to share.Try it - it works, for the kingdom. I consider evangelizing as sharing good news. One may take it or leave it. That is why Jesus was on the move all the time - to share.Try it - it works, for the kingdom.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by jtar98@yahoo.com Jesus loved everyone so much and the gospel had such good news about Jesus’ love for everyone that the church felt compelled by the good news of Jesus’ teachings in the gospels that they found it necessary to burn my ancestors alive at the stake because they didn’t buy the good news.  Others were told to either accept Jesus or die.  With friends like that, who needs enemies!!! Jesus loved everyone so much and the gospel had such good news about Jesus’ love for everyone that the church felt compelled by the good news of Jesus’ teachings in the gospels that they found it necessary to burn my ancestors alive at the stake because they didn’t buy the good news.  Others were told to either accept Jesus or die.  With friends like that, who needs enemies!!!

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00 Comment by Dhenkin@lawfitz.com But, John, it’s “good news.” Kind of like the plague is good news.  If this is “love,” we can definitely do without it.  Evangelism should be considered a war crime. But, John, it’s “good news.” Kind of like the plague is good news. 
If this is “love,” we can definitely do without it.  Evangelism should be considered a war crime.

]]> 2009-11-19T;22:58:01-05:00