The Christmas Conversion http://blogs.jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/the-christmas-conversion/ From The New York Times. What’s a new, or soon-to-be-Jew, to do on Christmas? Wrestle with identity issues, apparently.  en-us bharris@jta.org Copyright 2009 2009-12-28T;20:46:00-05:00 Comment by Hannah yofi524@msn.com Thanks Sheldon. One way I solved this dilemma was to move to Israel. It’s so wonderful- no Christmas ads, no commercialism, no elves or santas (except for in tourist traps). It’s so incredible here, other than the political garbage on the news. But walking in the Land is so beautiful, and yesterday we went to the Kotel. It was nice to see lots of tourists, hopefully going home with lots of goodwill towards us. But there’s something in the air- I can sense it- it makes my spirit feel good- I can’t explain it. It makes me cry sometimes, just looking at the rocky hills. Every Jew needs to come home- we need you! Please consider making aliyah while there’s still time. Thanks Sheldon. One way I solved this dilemma was to move to Israel. It’s so wonderful- no Christmas ads, no commercialism, no elves or santas (except for in tourist traps).

It’s so incredible here, other than the political garbage on the news. But walking in the Land is so beautiful, and yesterday we went to the Kotel. It was nice to see lots of tourists, hopefully going home with lots of goodwill towards us.

But there’s something in the air- I can sense it- it makes my spirit feel good- I can’t explain it. It makes me cry sometimes, just looking at the rocky hills. Every Jew needs to come home- we need you! Please consider making aliyah while there’s still time.

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00 Comment by DACON9 DACON9@GMAIL.COM DAN, SHOUTING? NO I AM STANDING TALL AND STRONG FOR TORAH UNADULTERATED. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOTICED I SAT DOWN 3 TIMES. RE READ WHAT I POSTED PLEASE. TOLERANCE, APPEASMENT, SENSITIVITY?  IT DOES NOT APPLY HERE. THEIR MIND HAS NOT BEEN PURGED OF IDOLATRY, THAT so called rabbi IS NOT QUALIFIED TO NOTTICE THAT AND SHOULD NOT BE A RABBI. BECAUSE THEY MAY ADMIRE CERTAIN RITUALS OF JUDAISM does not mean they should convert. They could just as well have learned the NOAHIDE LAWS as ADA,. NOAH AND ABRAHAM TRIED TO TEACH THE WORLD AND THEY COULD BE CALLED *RIGHTIOUS GENTILES* JUDAISM IS SPIRITUAL. THEY ARE NOT SPIRITUALLY TUNED IN IF THEY THINK OF PAGAN IDOLATRY WAYS,SYMBOLS AND THOUGHTS. JEWS DO NOT AND ARE NOT PERMITTEDTO HAVE THOSE SYMBOLS IN THE MIND OR IN THE HOUSE. sometimes they rush things .this is not to say that in the future that person may well be a good jew believeing IN THE *ONE GD OF ISRAEL AND ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND EARTH with none other, none besides “HIM” none other then ‘HIM’. I DO HOPE I AM PERFECTLY CLEAR TO ALL THE READERS. WHOM DO YOU SERVE? YOURSELF and your false leader/rabbi AND OR YOUR PAST? OR DO YOU SERVE THE ‘ONE’ GD OF ISRAEL....... AND NOW I will take a seat DAN, SHOUTING? NO I AM STANDING TALL AND STRONG FOR TORAH UNADULTERATED. YOU SHOULD HAVE NOTICED I SAT DOWN 3 TIMES. RE READ WHAT I POSTED PLEASE.
TOLERANCE, APPEASMENT, SENSITIVITY?  IT DOES NOT APPLY HERE. THEIR MIND HAS NOT BEEN PURGED OF IDOLATRY,
THAT so called rabbi IS NOT QUALIFIED TO NOTTICE THAT AND SHOULD NOT BE A RABBI.
BECAUSE THEY MAY ADMIRE CERTAIN RITUALS OF JUDAISM
does not mean they should convert.
They could just as well have learned the NOAHIDE LAWS as ADA,. NOAH AND ABRAHAM TRIED TO TEACH THE WORLD AND THEY COULD BE CALLED *RIGHTIOUS GENTILES*

JUDAISM IS SPIRITUAL. THEY ARE NOT SPIRITUALLY TUNED IN IF THEY THINK OF PAGAN IDOLATRY WAYS,SYMBOLS AND THOUGHTS.

JEWS DO NOT AND ARE NOT PERMITTEDTO HAVE THOSE SYMBOLS IN THE MIND OR IN THE HOUSE.

sometimes they rush things .this is not to say that in the future that person may well be a good jew believeing
IN THE *ONE GD OF ISRAEL AND ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND EARTH
with none other, none besides “HIM” none other then ‘HIM’.

I DO HOPE I AM PERFECTLY CLEAR TO ALL THE READERS.
WHOM DO YOU SERVE?
YOURSELF and your false leader/rabbi AND OR YOUR PAST?

OR DO YOU SERVE THE ‘ONE’ GD OF ISRAEL.......

AND NOW
I will take a seat

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00 Comment by Miri violetmalia@yahoo.com There’s a psychosis going on with secular Jewish men.  They hate Jewish women and will only date shiksas but then they want their Gentile girlfriends to “convert” before they’ll marry them.  That is absolutely crazy.  If your fiance’s a Gentile then your children will Gentiles.  Having a faux non-Orthodox “conversion” doesn’t change anything.  Your family will still be Gentiles.  These faux “conversions” will only last as long as the marriage.  The whole thing is absurd. There’s a psychosis going on with secular Jewish men.  They hate Jewish women and will only date shiksas but then they want their Gentile girlfriends to “convert” before they’ll marry them.  That is absolutely crazy.  If your fiance’s a Gentile then your children will Gentiles.  Having a faux non-Orthodox “conversion” doesn’t change anything.  Your family will still be Gentiles. 
These faux “conversions” will only last as long as the marriage.  The whole thing is absurd.

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00 Comment by Miri violetmalia@yahoo.com This article was ridicoulous.  “Converting” for marriage isn’t really conversion at all.  Another story about secular Jewish men forcing their shiksa girlfriends to “convert” to secular Judaism.  Jocelyn and Charlotte are becoming faux Jews to satisfy their Jewish fiances guilt.  These stupid women would convert to Islam if their men were Muslim.  They should just keep celebrating Christmas because they won’t become real Jews anyway.  Eating ham on Christmas and “converting” to Reform Judaism isn’t real Judaism. This article was ridicoulous.  “Converting” for marriage isn’t really conversion at all.  Another story about secular Jewish men forcing their shiksa girlfriends to “convert” to secular Judaism.  Jocelyn and Charlotte are becoming faux Jews to satisfy their Jewish fiances guilt.  These stupid women would convert to Islam if their men were Muslim. 

They should just keep celebrating Christmas because they won’t become real Jews anyway.  Eating ham on Christmas and “converting” to Reform Judaism isn’t real Judaism.

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00 Comment by Thomas Roberts whamslam007@aol.com All - I am a natural born Jew - Mom and Dad and Grandparents at least two generations further back were all known to be Jewish. OK. Big deal. But you are missing one key point: The Christmas tree is NOT a religious symbol. And my family had one for many years. It was topped off with a Jewish Star or a secular symbol and gifts were placed around it and the whole family - including the family cat and dog - opened gifts. After marrying and having children the tree disappeared simply because it was such a pain to deal with. Instead, we gave eight gifts to each child, one per day. This gave the children time to “absorb” each gift as opposed to being overwhelmed and our Christian friends thought it was really cool to give gifts like that, because their children inevitably picked out a favorite toy and discarded all the others, while my children enjoyed all their gifts year round. The gifts were placed in the basement and it was a great joy to them and my wife and me to see them run downstairs, choose a gift, run back upstairs and open it. They were completely satisfied for that day and were excited about the anticipation of the days yet to come. Christmas can have its holy significance to the Christians while dispensing its festive aspects to all religions. My family never celebrated the wrongly-timed birth of Jesus, but we all enjoyed and continue to enjoy the season’s fun and festivity. Tom All -

I am a natural born Jew - Mom and Dad and Grandparents at least two generations further back were all known to be Jewish.

OK. Big deal. But you are missing one key point: The Christmas tree is NOT a religious symbol. And my family had one for many years. It was topped off with a Jewish Star or a secular symbol and gifts were placed around it and the whole family - including the family cat and dog - opened gifts.

After marrying and having children the tree disappeared simply because it was such a pain to deal with. Instead, we gave eight gifts to each child, one per day. This gave the children time to “absorb” each gift as opposed to being overwhelmed and our Christian friends thought it was really cool to give gifts like that, because their children inevitably picked out a favorite toy and discarded all the others, while my children enjoyed all their gifts year round.

The gifts were placed in the basement and it was a great joy to them and my wife and me to see them run downstairs, choose a gift, run back upstairs and open it. They were completely satisfied for that day and were excited about the anticipation of the days yet to come.

Christmas can have its holy significance to the Christians while dispensing its festive aspects to all religions. My family never celebrated the wrongly-timed birth of Jesus, but we all enjoyed and continue to enjoy the season’s fun and festivity.

Tom

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00 Comment by Sheldon Dan sdan5753@bellsouth.net Hannah:  Thank you for a perspective that many probably don’t think of.  Unfortunately, your comment on “non-understanding Christians and Jews” is accurate.  What we are describing is the old “December dilemma,” in which there may be a certain amount of envy on the part of Jews for the Christian celebrations.  From what you wrote, many Jews even take this too far.  I generally have learned to tune out the “Christmas season” and have had fewer problems with it than I have in the past.  I get the sense that you are strong enough to resist even family pressure, and I respect you for it. To me, it is enough to remember that “It’s not my holiday.” I simply put up with everything around me, and generally non-Jews still respect the fact that I don’t participate in Christmas celebrations (or limit that participation).  I think more of us need to remember that we should stand up and be proud Jews and let the non-Jews have their celebrations.  Apparently, many of the converts described have found their own ways of coping with the fact that their families do things differently than they are at this time of the year.  It is possible to have mutual respect for others’ customs without having to sacrifice one’s principles.  I think the converts and their families do this every day. DACON9:  The fact that you are SHOUTING indicates that you are trying to make a major point.  I GET IT.  However, I wonder if maybe you were wasting your time writing the comment, as I don’t think it is going to make much of a difference to the readers as it is stated.  In fact, stating that “the converts would not be thinking of Xmas but thinking of Chanukah or coming Shabbat” is a little insensitive to the converts.  The fact is that this time of year IS sensitive to them.  Instead of castigating them for what they “shouldn’t” be thinking of, a little sensitivity on everyone’s part is called for, and I have no doubt the converts are strong enough to acknowledge the mixed feelings and still hold on to what they have adopted. Hannah:  Thank you for a perspective that many probably don’t think of.  Unfortunately, your comment on “non-understanding Christians and Jews” is accurate. 

What we are describing is the old “December dilemma,” in which there may be a certain amount of envy on the part of Jews for the Christian celebrations.  From what you wrote, many Jews even take this too far.  I generally have learned to tune out the “Christmas season” and have had fewer problems with it than I have in the past.  I get the sense that you are strong enough to resist even family pressure, and I respect you for it.

To me, it is enough to remember that “It’s not my holiday.” I simply put up with everything around me, and generally non-Jews still respect the fact that I don’t participate in Christmas celebrations (or limit that participation).  I think more of us need to remember that we should stand up and be proud Jews and let the non-Jews have their celebrations. 

Apparently, many of the converts described have found their own ways of coping with the fact that their families do things differently than they are at this time of the year.  It is possible to have mutual respect for others’ customs without having to sacrifice one’s principles.  I think the converts and their families do this every day.

DACON9:  The fact that you are SHOUTING indicates that you are trying to make a major point.  I GET IT.  However, I wonder if maybe you were wasting your time writing the comment, as I don’t think it is going to make much of a difference to the readers as it is stated.  In fact, stating that “the converts would not be thinking of Xmas but thinking of Chanukah or coming Shabbat” is a little insensitive to the converts.  The fact is that this time of year IS sensitive to them.  Instead of castigating them for what they “shouldn’t” be thinking of, a little sensitivity on everyone’s part is called for, and I have no doubt the converts are strong enough to acknowledge the mixed feelings and still hold on to what they have adopted.

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00 Comment by DACON9 DACON9@GMAIL.COM IF THE RABBI WAS SINCERE and knowledgeable . If the convert was sincere in serving GD OF ISRAEL. If the educational process was according to thousands of years and not new age ideas THIS ARTICLE WOULD NOT BE WRITTEN THE RABBIS WOULD NOT BE A RABBI AND I WOULDNT BE WRITING THIS COMMENT. and most of all AND THE CONVERTS WOULD NOT BE THINKING OF XMAS BUT THINKING OF CHANUKAH OR COMING SHABBAT IF THE RABBI WAS SINCERE and knowledgeable .
If the convert was sincere in serving GD OF ISRAEL.
If the educational process was according to thousands of years and not new age ideas
THIS ARTICLE WOULD NOT BE WRITTEN
THE RABBIS WOULD NOT BE A RABBI
AND I WOULDNT BE WRITING THIS COMMENT.
and most of all
AND THE CONVERTS WOULD NOT BE THINKING OF XMAS BUT THINKING OF CHANUKAH OR COMING SHABBAT

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00 Comment by Hannah yofi524@msn.com You haven’t even touched on the issues associated with xmas, for both Jews and Christians. Christians shouldn’t even be celebrating it, because it is a holiday to the Sun God Mithra and has nothing to do with Christianity. Case in point: why would any Christian with any sense of who Jesus was celebrate his pretend birthday by eating pork, which would repulse him if he was present? Most converts I know stopped celebrating xmas before they even thought of converting for the above reasons. So the issue does not exist for these converts. I’m surprised anyone converts unless years have gone by without a xmas celebration in their lives. It just doesn’t make sense. And the other issue is, that there are many non-observant Jews who celebrate xmas. I have had this problem, and though I was born Jewish, the rest of my family has assimilated and prefers to keep xmas. So, because I’m observant, I have been left out for years. To conclude, the issue isn’t whether one has converted or not, the issue is that many non-understanding Christians and Jews celebrate xmas because it’s a family holiday with pretty festive decorations. And until they care about the pagan roots, this will continue and many Jews, both converts and natural Jews, will be separated from families at this season. You haven’t even touched on the issues associated with xmas, for both Jews and Christians. Christians shouldn’t even be celebrating it, because it is a holiday to the Sun God Mithra and has nothing to do with Christianity. Case in point: why would any Christian with any sense of who Jesus was celebrate his pretend birthday by eating pork, which would repulse him if he was present? Most converts I know stopped celebrating xmas before they even thought of converting for the above reasons. So the issue does not exist for these converts. I’m surprised anyone converts unless years have gone by without a xmas celebration in their lives. It just doesn’t make sense. And the other issue is, that there are many non-observant Jews who celebrate xmas. I have had this problem, and though I was born Jewish, the rest of my family has assimilated and prefers to keep xmas. So, because I’m observant, I have been left out for years. To conclude, the issue isn’t whether one has converted or not, the issue is that many non-understanding Christians and Jews celebrate xmas because it’s a family holiday with pretty festive decorations. And until they care about the pagan roots, this will continue and many Jews, both converts and natural Jews, will be separated from families at this season.

]]> 2012-05-24T;14:04:00-05:00