Cohen: Enough about the Holocaust already http://blogs.jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/cohen-enough-about-the-holocaust-already/ Roger Cohen, again. This time, it’s a call for Israel to stop talking about the Holocaust already and dismantle its assumed nuclear arsenal. en-us uheilman@jta.org Copyright 2009 2009-10-16T;19:19:00-05:00 Comment by Gary Katz garybkatz@comcast.net Stuart, I could say there are two types of people: those who pigeonhole everyone into categories and those who don’t.  But that would be very ironic of me. Stuart,
I could say there are two types of people: those who pigeonhole everyone into categories and those who don’t.  But that would be very ironic of me.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by stuart goldbarg sgoldbarg@msn.com Mr Kolsky, The police of New York always had firearms.  Perhaps, you are thinking of London. Mrs Mavrikos, There are only 2 types of Jews.  Those who wish to divide Jews, and those who don’t.  It seems to me that almost all of the Jews who post here are of the first type. Everyone else, While I think Mr. Cohen is incorrect, he isn’t an enemy, and to write that he is, is to take on the part of Acher and the kapos.  Be ashamed. Mr Kolsky,
The police of New York always had firearms.  Perhaps, you are thinking of London.

Mrs Mavrikos,
There are only 2 types of Jews.  Those who wish to divide Jews, and those who don’t.  It seems to me that almost all of the Jews who post here are of the first type.

Everyone else,
While I think Mr. Cohen is incorrect, he isn’t an enemy, and to write that he is, is to take on the part of Acher and the kapos.  Be ashamed.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Gary Katz garybkatz@comcast.net Walid, The only people who cheapen the Holocaust are the deniers like Ahmadinejad.  If anything, much of the rest of world didn’t learn enough about it, given the genocides that have taken place since: Rawanda, Darfur, etc.  I understand your point about a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, but I disagree.  Israel is a tiny country surrounded by enemies and potential enemies.  Theoretically, the Arabs could destroy Israel with enough conventional weapons, mainly missiles.  The fanatics who rule Iran must understand that the price of attacking Israel is too high, even for them and the low value they place on the lives of their own civilians.  If Israel forsakes its (suspected) nukes, it increases the chances of an all-out attack: Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria simultaneously, all supported by Iran.  Walid, you also overlook the fact that the Arabs don’t have to fear Israel attacking them for pure conquest.  They only need nukes if they want to destroy Israel.  If they leave Israel alone, Israel will happily leave them alone.  I would add that, even if Israel and the Arabs renounced nukes, I wouldn’t trust half those Arab/Persian governments as far as I could spit.  The more repressive and fanatic the government, the more they lie.  This has been true for thousands of years, and never more true today. Walid,
The only people who cheapen the Holocaust are the deniers like Ahmadinejad.  If anything, much of the rest of world didn’t learn enough about it, given the genocides that have taken place since: Rawanda, Darfur, etc. 
I understand your point about a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, but I disagree.  Israel is a tiny country surrounded by enemies and potential enemies.  Theoretically, the Arabs could destroy Israel with enough conventional weapons, mainly missiles.  The fanatics who rule Iran must understand that the price of attacking Israel is too high, even for them and the low value they place on the lives of their own civilians.  If Israel forsakes its (suspected) nukes, it increases the chances of an all-out attack: Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria simultaneously, all supported by Iran.  Walid, you also overlook the fact that the Arabs don’t have to fear Israel attacking them for pure conquest.  They only need nukes if they want to destroy Israel.  If they leave Israel alone, Israel will happily leave them alone.  I would add that, even if Israel and the Arabs renounced nukes, I wouldn’t trust half those Arab/Persian governments as far as I could spit.  The more repressive and fanatic the government, the more they lie.  This has been true for thousands of years, and never more true today.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Walid Maaytah wmaaytah@kmc.jo The tragedy of the Holocaust must not be used, so casually and nonchalantly, invoked carelessly and milked the way it has been for so long, by so many, for cheap political gains. Its historical significance and dignity must be spared from frequent casual use, which has been the case, as it cheapens it and makes it look like a trite scapegoat, used yet again to justify unjustified acts. Nuclear weapons will only result, sooner or later, in the whole region acquiring them under the guise that Israel has them. Israel would be wise to make sure that no one in the region has them, but not by bombing them, but by taking from them the excuse of their need to have them because Israel has them. Israel has a lot of growing up to do, and the sooner it makes serious steps toward making real peace with the Palestinians, and not these waste-of-time stalling tactics and charades that we all know the purpose of, the more secure it will be. For everyone’s sake, including Israel and its children, peace must be desired, worked on, and achieved, to the satisfaction of all parties, otherwise every one loses, and everyone has lost so much already. The tragedy of the Holocaust must not be used, so casually and nonchalantly, invoked carelessly and milked the way it has been for so long, by so many, for cheap political gains. Its historical significance and dignity must be spared from frequent casual use, which has been the case, as it cheapens it and makes it look like a trite scapegoat, used yet again to justify unjustified acts. Nuclear weapons will only result, sooner or later, in the whole region acquiring them under the guise that Israel has them. Israel would be wise to make sure that no one in the region has them, but not by bombing them, but by taking from them the excuse of their need to have them because Israel has them. Israel has a lot of growing up to do, and the sooner it makes serious steps toward making real peace with the Palestinians, and not these waste-of-time stalling tactics and charades that we all know the purpose of, the more secure it will be. For everyone’s sake, including Israel and its children, peace must be desired, worked on, and achieved, to the satisfaction of all parties, otherwise every one loses, and everyone has lost so much already.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Charles Weinblatt csw1@sev.org Cohen calls for Israel’s destruction, while praising the nation that has, “vowed to wipe Israel off the map,” in their own words.  That nation that Cohen praises, Iran, is now enriching uranium to bomb-grade yellowcake.  Within a year, they will be able to mount a nuclear weapon on their Shihab-3 intercontinental ballistic missile.  If Jews have learned anything over the past 3,000 years, it’s that when a nation vows to destroy you and has the means to follow through with their threat, it will probably occur.  Meanwhile, Israel, a nation that has been attacked repeatedly by her neighbors, has never threatened the existence of any other nation.  The threat of nuclear retaliation is the only reason that Israel exists today.  How else can a tiny nation of 6 million remain alive when surrounded by 1.5 BILLION enemies?  Hamas, Hizbollah and their proctor and arms supplier, Iran, openly vow to destroy the Jewish state.  This promise exists in their charters.  One can only say that Cohen is irrational, illogical and possibly insane.  Charles Weinblatt Author, Jacob’s Courage http://jacobscourage.wordpress.com/ Cohen calls for Israel’s destruction, while praising the nation that has, “vowed to wipe Israel off the map,” in their own words.  That nation that Cohen praises, Iran, is now enriching uranium to bomb-grade yellowcake.  Within a year, they will be able to mount a nuclear weapon on their Shihab-3 intercontinental ballistic missile.  If Jews have learned anything over the past 3,000 years, it’s that when a nation vows to destroy you and has the means to follow through with their threat, it will probably occur.  Meanwhile, Israel, a nation that has been attacked repeatedly by her neighbors, has never threatened the existence of any other nation. 

The threat of nuclear retaliation is the only reason that Israel exists today.  How else can a tiny nation of 6 million remain alive when surrounded by 1.5 BILLION enemies?  Hamas, Hizbollah and their proctor and arms supplier, Iran, openly vow to destroy the Jewish state.  This promise exists in their charters.  One can only say that Cohen is irrational, illogical and possibly insane. 

Charles Weinblatt
Author, Jacob’s Courage
http://jacobscourage.wordpress.com/

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Tim Lehmann tim@21stcenturychristian.org I am deeply saddened that Israel such vocal enemies as Roger Cohen. I’m sure that Mr. Cohen does not think of himself as a enemy of Israel, but the facts are plain. Consider that during every cease fire Hamas takes advantage to the lull in fighting to re-arm.  Consider that Iran’s president has, many times, declared that he would like to see Israel “wiped off the face of the map” and even once used the phrase that Israel “would be nothing more than a large, smoking crater”. Consider that Iran, according to all western countries, is working to obtain the weapons needed to carry out this threat. Tell me one more time, Mr. Cohen, why Israel should abandon her best weapons? And to say that Iran makes rational decisions? One only needs to look at the last election and the inhuman stomping that dissenters received to refute that statement. Maybe, if you are so in love with Iran, Mr. Cohen, you might consider moving your family there. I am deeply saddened that Israel such vocal enemies as Roger Cohen. I’m sure that Mr. Cohen does not think of himself as a enemy of Israel, but the facts are plain. Consider that during every cease fire Hamas takes advantage to the lull in fighting to re-arm.  Consider that Iran’s president has, many times, declared that he would like to see Israel “wiped off the face of the map” and even once used the phrase that Israel “would be nothing more than a large, smoking crater”. Consider that Iran, according to all western countries, is working to obtain the weapons needed to carry out this threat. Tell me one more time, Mr. Cohen, why Israel should abandon her best weapons? And to say that Iran makes rational decisions? One only needs to look at the last election and the inhuman stomping that dissenters received to refute that statement. Maybe, if you are so in love with Iran, Mr. Cohen, you might consider moving your family there.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Gary Katz garybkatz@comcast.net Ross, as the Yom Kippur War demonstrated, Israel must be constantly vigilant.  If they don’t make themselves invincible, they might end up invisible.  Having said that, one would think that given their numerous defeats, the Muslims would have an inkling that, just maybe, Allah is not on their side. Ross, as the Yom Kippur War demonstrated, Israel must be constantly vigilant.  If they don’t make themselves invincible, they might end up invisible. 
Having said that, one would think that given their numerous defeats, the Muslims would have an inkling that, just maybe, Allah is not on their side.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Ross Nicholson TogetherinParis@gmail.com The Almighty is happy with Israel’s hostile neighbors and restive foreign inhabitants!  Opposition has been good for the Jewish politic.  Yes, the Hebrews suffer, but the enemies of the Hebrews suffer far worse for their resistance.  Nuclear weapons could be abandoned, the Jews have switched over to modern non-nuclear neutron weapons (disguised as ‘phosphorous’ weapons) anyway.  Any attacking Arab army would burn alive like the Gaza Hamas fighters did.  Israel is invincible. The Almighty is happy with Israel’s hostile neighbors and restive foreign inhabitants!  Opposition has been good for the Jewish politic.  Yes, the Hebrews suffer, but the enemies of the Hebrews suffer far worse for their resistance.  Nuclear weapons could be abandoned, the Jews have switched over to modern non-nuclear neutron weapons (disguised as ‘phosphorous’ weapons) anyway.  Any attacking Arab army would burn alive like the Gaza Hamas fighters did.  Israel is invincible.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Herbert Kaine herbertkaine@hotmail.com I thought that Roger Cohen would be embarrassed by the election that his buddy Ahmadinejad stole. Now he is embarassing himself again as an apologist for Iranian fascists. The only reason I can see for publishing him is as an affirmative action program for imbeciles. Mr Cohen finally puts to rest the myth of Jewish intelligence. Most 5 year olds have a better understanding of the threat of a nuclear Iran I thought that Roger Cohen would be embarrassed by the election that his buddy Ahmadinejad stole. Now he is embarassing himself again as an apologist for Iranian fascists. The only reason I can see for publishing him is as an affirmative action program for imbeciles. Mr Cohen finally puts to rest the myth of Jewish intelligence. Most 5 year olds have a better understanding of the threat of a nuclear Iran

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Jerrold A. Weissman jerry@weissman.com Please excuse me.  I am a backward country fellow and the words that Mr Cohen has written have as much sense to me as if they were written on a leaf blown wind.  Out here in Montana when there is that much animosity and self loathing uttered the proper response is...................and the horse you rode in on too! Jerry Weissman Great Falls, Montana Please excuse me.  I am a backward country fellow and the words that Mr Cohen has written have as much sense to me as if they were written on a leaf blown wind. 

Out here in Montana when there is that much animosity and self loathing uttered the proper response is...................and the horse you rode in on too!

Jerry Weissman
Great Falls, Montana

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Gary Katz garybkatz@comcast.net David, you’re partially correct.  Cohen wants Israel to sign the non-proliferation treaty, so Iran and Arab states can stop whining about a double standard.  However, there is strategic value in Israel keeping its nuke status in the dark.  Iran might attack Israel if it knew Israel had, say, 10 nukes, or they might have their proxy, Hezbollah, do so.  But Iran doesn’t know if Israel has 10 or 100 or 500 nukes, so the mullahs become more hesitant in their fanaticism.  For all we know, Israel doesn’t have any nukes! The “never again” mentality is not outdated, as recent genocides have shown.  The Tutsis of Rawanda will testify that our present civilization is perfectly capable of mass slaughter.  “Never again” means, in part, “Various peoples may kill off each other, but we are done going like lambs to the slaughterhouse.  If you try it again against us, many more of you will die than us.  So think it over.” Thus, the threat of a retaliating nuclear Israel folds perfectly and logically into its “never again” mentality. David, you’re partially correct.  Cohen wants Israel to sign the non-proliferation treaty, so Iran and Arab states can stop whining about a double standard.  However, there is strategic value in Israel keeping its nuke status in the dark.  Iran might attack Israel if it knew Israel had, say, 10 nukes, or they might have their proxy, Hezbollah, do so.  But Iran doesn’t know if Israel has 10 or 100 or 500 nukes, so the mullahs become more hesitant in their fanaticism.  For all we know, Israel doesn’t have any nukes!
The “never again” mentality is not outdated, as recent genocides have shown.  The Tutsis of Rawanda will testify that our present civilization is perfectly capable of mass slaughter.  “Never again” means, in part, “Various peoples may kill off each other, but we are done going like lambs to the slaughterhouse.  If you try it again against us, many more of you will die than us.  So think it over.” Thus, the threat of a retaliating nuclear Israel folds perfectly and logically into its “never again” mentality.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Kevin Kamberg oregonrainsticks@gmail.com Echo David Szonyi’s criticism of Uriel Hellman’s blatent misrepresentation of what Cohen called for. I fail utterly to see how the interests of Jews anywhere on the planet are furthered by such glib intellectual dishonesty. I expect more from JTA. A lot more! Take away the intellectually honest reporting and these daily JTA digests are just more unwanted spam cluttering my inbox. Echo David Szonyi’s criticism of Uriel Hellman’s blatent misrepresentation of what Cohen called for.

I fail utterly to see how the interests of Jews anywhere on the planet are furthered by such glib intellectual dishonesty.

I expect more from JTA. A lot more! Take away the intellectually honest reporting and these daily JTA digests are just more unwanted spam cluttering my inbox.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by David Szonyi daszonyi@yahoo.com Uriel Hellman and JTA, no matter how much you disagree with what Roger Cohen writes, you have an obligation to get it right in paraphrasing his views. Please reread the column—Mr. Cohen most definitely did *not* call for Israel to “dismantle its assumed nuclear arsenal,” nor did he say “Enough About the Holocaust Already”—rather, he called for limiting Holocaust-related allusions in formulating policy and policy statements, and focusing more on a realpolitik encounter with the very real menace that is Iran.  Cohen might be wrong, but it doesn’t help matters to inaccurately report what he is saying. David Szonyi Bloomington, Indiana Uriel Hellman and JTA, no matter how much you disagree with what Roger Cohen writes, you have an obligation to get it right in paraphrasing his views. Please reread the column—Mr. Cohen most definitely did *not* call for Israel to “dismantle its assumed nuclear arsenal,” nor did he say “Enough About the Holocaust Already”—rather, he called for limiting Holocaust-related allusions in formulating policy and policy statements, and focusing more on a realpolitik encounter with the very real menace that is Iran.  Cohen might be wrong, but it doesn’t help matters to inaccurately report what he is saying.

David Szonyi
Bloomington, Indiana

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by steve mann 123tubalcane@googlemail.com Mr Cohen, whilst I will not argue with you re the Holocaust as long as you do not deny it. However on Israel and her possible Nuclear arsenal and maybe Lazer weapons I hope. Are you completely naive- Here is the Charter from Hamas ,which is part of the Islamic brotherhood, of which IRAN is a supporter and main financial banker:- “Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts, . The Islamic Resistance movement is but one squadron that should be supported… until the enemy is vanquished and Allah victory is realized. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.......” “The prophet.... has said “The day of judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, killing the Jews, when the Jews will hide behind the stones and the trees. The stones and the trees will say “there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him"… There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavours. Palestine is an Islamic land”..... and it goes on with more rhetoric.. I hope you read these comments, for if you desire Israels demise then you are talking the talk her adversaries are delighted with! Mr Cohen, whilst I will not argue with you re the Holocaust as long as you do not deny it.
However on Israel and her possible Nuclear arsenal and maybe Lazer weapons I hope.
Are you completely naive-
Here is the Charter from Hamas ,which is part of the Islamic brotherhood, of which IRAN is a supporter and main financial banker:-

“Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts,
. The Islamic Resistance movement is but one squadron that should be supported… until the enemy is vanquished and Allah victory is realized. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.......”

“The prophet.... has said “The day of judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, killing the Jews, when the Jews will hide behind the stones and the trees. The stones and the trees will say “there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him"…
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavours. Palestine is an Islamic land”..... and it goes on with more rhetoric..

I hope you read these comments, for if you desire Israels demise then you are talking the talk her adversaries are delighted with!

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Researchok researchok@gmail.com Roger Cohen is an idiot. The Israelis can let go of the Holocaust just as soon as the Arab world let’s go of their promise to ‘Finish what Hitler started’. The same people who want to denigrate the significance of the Holocaust are usually the same people who think genocide of the Jews is a good idea. Roger Cohen is an idiot.

The Israelis can let go of the Holocaust just as soon as the Arab world let’s go of their promise to ‘Finish what Hitler started’.

The same people who want to denigrate the significance of the Holocaust are usually the same people who think genocide of the Jews is a good idea.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by MICHAEL B KOLSKY michaelbkolsky@yahoo.com Mr. cohen lives in La-La Land. Maybe the police in NY should revert back to working the streets without guns to demonstrate to the “Hoodlums” that they are really good guysa and want peace. If Israel gives up their military might how long do you think oit wpould take before the “Arab states” make peace, or more likely attack Israel again. The Arab world like Hitler needs a “scapegoat” for the level of existance their citizens live, without Israel to complain about how long would the dictators in the Arab World last. Mike Kolsky Mr. cohen lives in La-La Land. Maybe the police in NY should revert back to working the streets without guns to demonstrate to the “Hoodlums” that they are really good guysa and want peace.

If Israel gives up their military might how long do you think oit wpould take before the “Arab states” make peace, or more likely attack Israel again.

The Arab world like Hitler needs a “scapegoat” for the level of existance their citizens live, without Israel to complain about how long would the dictators in the Arab World last.

Mike Kolsky

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00