Huckabee on evangelicals, Palestinian state http://blogs.jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/huckabee-on-evangelicals-palestinian-state/ Former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee gave an interview to CBN where he talks about a Palestinian state "not necessarily" in the same geographic region as Israel, and says evangelicals are better friends of Israel than American Jews. American Jews are divided over Israel, Huckabee says—not over support for it per se, but about what is in Israel’s best interests, what it ought to do to achieve peace and security. en-us bharris@jta.org Copyright 2009 2009-08-21T;19:21:00-05:00 Comment by Stoney USMC sstone74@comcast.net Thank G-d for mainstream Jews ......Mark Rudd, Bernadette Dohrn, Madoffs.....if only we all were good Jews then we would finally settle the Jewish problem. i’m sure my relatived whose ashes cover Europe were not mainstream like the enlighten ones with the modern jewish names.  It must cause angst for the mainstream to have Pastor Hagee do more for Israel then ....... Thank G-d for mainstream Jews ......Mark Rudd, Bernadette Dohrn, Madoffs.....if only we all were good Jews then we would finally settle the Jewish problem.
i’m sure my relatived whose ashes cover Europe were not mainstream like the enlighten ones with the modern jewish names.  It must cause angst for the mainstream to have Pastor Hagee do more for Israel then .......

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Evan Zuesse tzur@optusnet.com.au One does not need to be Einstein to see that those anti-Zionists (if not worse) who deplore Christian evangelical support for Israel are enemies of the state and of the Jewish people generally.  Israel, the only Jewish state in the world, subjected to constant demonization and double standards and thus already isolated by the billion-plus Muslims and their cowardly allies in the Third World and the West, needs all the friends she can get.  Jews can easily let the Millenium take care of itself: truth will be revealed then for all the world to see.  However they live now in the pre-Messianic Era, surrounded by ill-wishers who would like to murder them and so I like all reasonable and devoted Jews am grateful for evangelical support: it is indeed as Huckabee has said: that support has been more realistic, constant and faithful than that from many assimilated and leftist American Jews.  Without that support, and that of non-evangelical Americans too (because - it needs to be stressed - the evangelical support is only a part of that broader consensus), there would not have been an Israel to begin with, nor would it have survived to the present.  It is telling that the strongest support for Israel has come from the center-right of American politics and society, including Presidents Reagan, Nixon and Bush, and that President Nixon literally saved Israel in the 1973 war, facing down threats of nuclear war from the USSR and total non-cooperation from Europe to resupply Israel’s military materiel at a crucial point in that war.  Without that support Israel would have gone under.  Quite apart from its own inability to continue the fight without adequate supplies, recently revealed documents from the former USSR have shown that the USSR was actually ready to invade Israel itself but desisted because of this US support. By the way, Huckabee did not say that Nablus Arabs could travel anywhere in Israel (David Ehrens quite typically willfully misunderstands what he meant): he said, or meant, that Arabs in Israel (where they have full citizenship and civil rights) can do so, while any Jew caught in Nablus (or elsewhere in the P.A.) would be murdered and has no rights at all.  Ehrens overlooks that the Palestinians explicitly demand a Judenfrei Palestinian state, ethnically cleansed, as a condition for “peace,” as well as the “return” of Palestinians schooled in hatred inside Israel itself, to create bloody chaos, prior of course to going on to wipe out all Israeli Jews as well once the Palestinians gain their own state and a national army.  (Supporters of the Palestinians consistently refuse to face the Nazi links of its 1930s and 40s leadership, including the mentor of Yasser Arafat, his own uncle, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and the continuation of Nazi themes, methods, media and education indoctrination and genocidal antisemitic goals, by the present Palestinian leadership, both Hamas and Fatah.  It is a pity that the American Jewish Democratic supporters of Obama do not take this seriously, contrary to Israeli Jews who must live daily under that reality and who whether leftist peaceniks or not almost completely distrust Obama.) It is a great pity that Huckabee or McCain did not become president.  The signs were all there before the election for those willing to see them and not wish them away.  Obama has been a disaster. One does not need to be Einstein to see that those anti-Zionists (if not worse) who deplore Christian evangelical support for Israel are enemies of the state and of the Jewish people generally.  Israel, the only Jewish state in the world, subjected to constant demonization and double standards and thus already isolated by the billion-plus Muslims and their cowardly allies in the Third World and the West, needs all the friends she can get.  Jews can easily let the Millenium take care of itself: truth will be revealed then for all the world to see.  However they live now in the pre-Messianic Era, surrounded by ill-wishers who would like to murder them and so I like all reasonable and devoted Jews am grateful for evangelical support: it is indeed as Huckabee has said: that support has been more realistic, constant and faithful than that from many assimilated and leftist American Jews.  Without that support, and that of non-evangelical Americans too (because - it needs to be stressed - the evangelical support is only a part of that broader consensus), there would not have been an Israel to begin with, nor would it have survived to the present.  It is telling that the strongest support for Israel has come from the center-right of American politics and society, including Presidents Reagan, Nixon and Bush, and that President Nixon literally saved Israel in the 1973 war, facing down threats of nuclear war from the USSR and total non-cooperation from Europe to resupply Israel’s military materiel at a crucial point in that war.  Without that support Israel would have gone under.  Quite apart from its own inability to continue the fight without adequate supplies, recently revealed documents from the former USSR have shown that the USSR was actually ready to invade Israel itself but desisted because of this US support.

By the way, Huckabee did not say that Nablus Arabs could travel anywhere in Israel (David Ehrens quite typically willfully misunderstands what he meant): he said, or meant, that Arabs in Israel (where they have full citizenship and civil rights) can do so, while any Jew caught in Nablus (or elsewhere in the P.A.) would be murdered and has no rights at all.  Ehrens overlooks that the Palestinians explicitly demand a Judenfrei Palestinian state, ethnically cleansed, as a condition for “peace,” as well as the “return” of Palestinians schooled in hatred inside Israel itself, to create bloody chaos, prior of course to going on to wipe out all Israeli Jews as well once the Palestinians gain their own state and a national army.  (Supporters of the Palestinians consistently refuse to face the Nazi links of its 1930s and 40s leadership, including the mentor of Yasser Arafat, his own uncle, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and the continuation of Nazi themes, methods, media and education indoctrination and genocidal antisemitic goals, by the present Palestinian leadership, both Hamas and Fatah.  It is a pity that the American Jewish Democratic supporters of Obama do not take this seriously, contrary to Israeli Jews who must live daily under that reality and who whether leftist peaceniks or not almost completely distrust Obama.)

It is a great pity that Huckabee or McCain did not become president.  The signs were all there before the election for those willing to see them and not wish them away.  Obama has been a disaster.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by blackie sschwartz@inbox.com KK, I hesitate to ask this...but, here goes: Are you seriously drawing an immoral equivalency between Christian Evangicals and Islamo-fascist terrorists? When is the last time you heard a Christian Evangelical screaming, “Allahu Akbar”...kill all the Jews?! If I were an Israeli, I’d opt for staying alive in my Jewish State now and take my chances of an afterlife in hell! Israel needs all the friends she can get; if some of them have ulterior motives for standing up for Israel, we can deal with that later. But at least Israel will survive. KK,
I hesitate to ask this...but, here goes:

Are you seriously drawing an immoral equivalency between Christian Evangicals and Islamo-fascist terrorists? When is the last time you heard a Christian Evangelical screaming, “Allahu Akbar”...kill all the Jews?! If I were an Israeli, I’d opt for staying alive in my Jewish State now and take my chances of an afterlife in hell! Israel needs all the friends she can get; if some of them have ulterior motives for standing up for Israel, we can deal with that later. But at least Israel will survive.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Mark S. Devenow attymsd@gmail.com Huckabee has it exactly right. The (largely) unspoken truth worth repeating is that American Jews, given the luxury of geographic remove and the degree of affluence attained by Jews in the United States, have, by and large, bought into every imaginable kind of illusion concerning our enemies and their intentions. Christian evangelicals, on the other hand, have a much more grounded/sane view of what it will take for Jewish sovereignty to perpetuate. In this condition, the notion that Christian evangelicals are Israel’s best friends here is not only plausible, but also all but ineluctable. And don’t anyone give me that nonsense impugning the motives of Christians who support the extension/perpetuation of a Jewish sovereign national existence for the fact that (a part of) this support springs from an eschatology which ought to be “alien” to Jews. When American Jewish liberals depart from the mentality whereof , say, abortion rights is more important than Israel, then these self-hating knaves might gain some standing in the contention as to whom (and what) is good for the Jews. Until then, these Jewish liberals should just shut up. And from the mere fact that 76-78% of us found a way to vote for a President who is, beyond peradventure, outright pro-Arab, hostile to the security interests of Israel and named “Hussein” to boot, this silence ought to last for a good long time. Huckabee has it exactly right. The (largely) unspoken truth worth repeating is that American Jews, given the luxury of geographic remove and the degree of affluence attained by Jews in the United States, have, by and large, bought into every imaginable kind of illusion concerning our enemies and their intentions. Christian evangelicals, on the other hand, have a much more grounded/sane view of what it will take for Jewish sovereignty to perpetuate.

In this condition, the notion that Christian evangelicals are Israel’s best friends here is not only plausible, but also all but ineluctable. And don’t anyone give me that nonsense impugning the motives of Christians who support the extension/perpetuation of a Jewish sovereign national existence for the fact that (a part of) this support springs from an eschatology which ought to be “alien” to Jews. When American Jewish liberals depart from the mentality whereof , say, abortion rights is more important than Israel, then these self-hating knaves might gain some standing in the contention as to whom (and what) is good for the Jews. Until then, these Jewish liberals should just shut up. And from the mere fact that 76-78% of us found a way to vote for a President who is, beyond peradventure, outright pro-Arab, hostile to the security interests of Israel and named “Hussein” to boot, this silence ought to last for a good long time.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by John Fisher captainutah1@yahoo.com Should it be a surprise that a mentality that could not accept a certain liberal Rabbi 2000 years ago would not accept his followers today? I really believe that if Abraham were raised from the dead he would look around and call himself not a Jew but a Jehovah worshipper. Should it be a surprise that a mentality that could not accept a certain liberal Rabbi 2000 years ago would not accept his followers today? I really believe that if Abraham were raised from the dead he would look around and call himself not a Jew but a Jehovah worshipper.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Milton J. Wolk miltarl@verizon.net Where are all these “contributors” getting their “facts or fictions” from?  Alot of it sounds like hearsay to me and not worth the paper it’s printed on.  Israel needs all the positive support it can get, and as an American Jew I resent Huckabee’s statement that the Evangelicals care more about Eretz Y’israel then we Jews do.  With “friends” like him, who needs enemies.  Huckabee misses the point when he claims that American Jews are divided over what is in Israel’s best interest in attaining peace and security.  We are not a homogeneous people but very heterogeneous, however most Jews I know of are unwavering in their support for Israel and what is in their best interest is of extreme interest to us. Where are all these “contributors” getting their “facts or fictions” from?  Alot of it sounds like hearsay to me and not worth the paper it’s printed on.  Israel needs all the positive support it can get, and as an American Jew I resent Huckabee’s statement that the Evangelicals care more about Eretz Y’israel then we Jews do.  With “friends” like him, who needs enemies.  Huckabee misses the point when he claims that American Jews are divided over what is in Israel’s best interest in attaining peace and security.  We are not a homogeneous people but very heterogeneous, however most Jews I know of are unwavering in their support for Israel and what is in their best interest is of extreme interest to us.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Marc Paige marcpaige@msn.com I’ve got news for you. If folks like Huckabee have their way, we will lose our beloved eretz yisrael, because one state will surely mean the end of Israel as a Jewish nation. Demographics and democracy compel this. And for those of you who want the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the West Bank, like Huckabee, the sole of the Jewish nation will be darkened and dead. The only solution is two states for two peoples. Anything else is fantasy, or a recipe for the end of Israel. I’ve got news for you. If folks like Huckabee have their way, we will lose our beloved eretz yisrael, because one state will surely mean the end of Israel as a Jewish nation. Demographics and democracy compel this. And for those of you who want the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the West Bank, like Huckabee, the sole of the Jewish nation will be darkened and dead. The only solution is two states for two peoples. Anything else is fantasy, or a recipe for the end of Israel.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Michael Hess bbsnews@gmail.com Blackie, You have sullied this near perfect thread. G’way. David perfectly summarized the reality. Blackie,

You have sullied this near perfect thread.

G’way.

David perfectly summarized the reality.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Kevin Kamberg oregonrainsticks@gmail.com That’s the thing, blackie. These evangelicals only appear to be standing up for Israel. Their theological reasons for doing it are no better than Hamas’ theological reasons for supporting suicide bombers. Either way the theological point of the exercise is to end up with virtually all Jews either dead (Hamas) or suffering horrific pain for all of eternity (Evangelicals). If the typical evangelical theology doesn’t amount to “anti-Semitism” then neither does Hamas’ theology. That’s the thing, blackie. These evangelicals only appear to be standing up for Israel. Their theological reasons for doing it are no better than Hamas’ theological reasons for supporting suicide bombers. Either way the theological point of the exercise is to end up with virtually all Jews either dead (Hamas) or suffering horrific pain for all of eternity (Evangelicals).

If the typical evangelical theology doesn’t amount to “anti-Semitism” then neither does Hamas’ theology.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by blackie sschwartz@inbox.com TO: KK ...and do you think that DE (of all people) has the Jewish State of Israel’s best interests in mind? Read some of his past comments on here and be convinced of his true sympathies. Instead of dissecting the motives of Evangelical, pro-Israel supporters, be grateful that they have the courage to stand up for Israel and against the global army of putrid anti-Semites. Would that more Jews (or JINOs) have that same courage! For if (G-d forbid) we should lose our beloved Eretz Yisroael, we will once again have no place to go...no place to hide. TO: KK

...and do you think that DE (of all people) has the Jewish State of Israel’s best interests in mind? Read some of his past comments on here and be convinced of his true sympathies.

Instead of dissecting the motives of Evangelical, pro-Israel supporters, be grateful that they have the courage to stand up for Israel and against the global army of putrid anti-Semites. Would that more Jews (or JINOs) have that same courage! For if (G-d forbid) we should lose our beloved Eretz Yisroael, we will once again have no place to go...no place to hide.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Kevin Kamberg oregonrainsticks@gmail.com A hearty ditto to what David Ehrens said! Michael Swerdflow makes a very strong point as well. The simple fact is that from their own theological point of view folks like Huckabee and his fellow evangelicals do NOT have Jew’s best interests in mind when they “support” Israel. It’s all about their apocalyptic eschatological beliefs coming to fruition - as if God needs their help… A central reality in their theology is that all practicing Jews will be sent to Hell - either to experience unremitting pain and suffering for all eternity or to be burned to death, depending on the particular evangelical sect’s theology. I know because I was raised in a sabbatarian evangelical sect prior to my maternal grandmother finally giving up her family secret that her mother was a Jew. A hearty ditto to what David Ehrens said!

Michael Swerdflow makes a very strong point as well.

The simple fact is that from their own theological point of view folks like Huckabee and his fellow evangelicals do NOT have Jew’s best interests in mind when they “support” Israel. It’s all about their apocalyptic eschatological beliefs coming to fruition - as if God needs their help…

A central reality in their theology is that all practicing Jews will be sent to Hell - either to experience unremitting pain and suffering for all eternity or to be burned to death, depending on the particular evangelical sect’s theology.

I know because I was raised in a sabbatarian evangelical sect prior to my maternal grandmother finally giving up her family secret that her mother was a Jew.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by Michael Swerdlow mike@mikeswerdlow.com The Evangelicals that Huckabee claims support Israel, do so because they want Israel to remain the way it was back in Christ’s day, they don’t want a 2 state solution or see Jerusalem split up.  They believe that when the Rapture comes after Armageddon, all the Christians will ascend to heaven.  They also believe all the Jews will go to hell, because they don’t accept Christ as their “Savior”, so their support for Israel is for their own self interest and not in the interest of the Jews. The Evangelicals that Huckabee claims support Israel, do so because they want Israel to remain the way it was back in Christ’s day, they don’t want a 2 state solution or see Jerusalem split up.  They believe that when the Rapture comes after Armageddon, all the Christians will ascend to heaven.  They also believe all the Jews will go to hell, because they don’t accept Christ as their “Savior”, so their support for Israel is for their own self interest and not in the interest of the Jews.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by paabrhm paabrhm@yahoo.com AMEN to David. AMEN to David.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00 Comment by David david.ehrens@gmail.com Wow! Those darned American Jews! “Evangelicals are more supportive of Israel than the American Jewish community.” And who knew that an Arab from Nablus could go anywhere he wanted in Israel? Huckabee was woefully misinformed on his “fact-finding” mission to Israel. The fact that there are still principled Jews who fight human rights abuses-- even by other Jews—is a testament to Judaism’s enduring ethics, which not even the last 120 years of Zionism has managed to eclipse and corrode. Fringe Christians like Huckabee may have a lot in common with militant Zionists in the US and the ruling Zionists in Israel, but not mainstream Jews here who overwhelmingly see things through an American, democratic, and not Israali, lens. Wow! Those darned American Jews! “Evangelicals are more supportive of Israel than the American Jewish community.” And who knew that an Arab from Nablus could go anywhere he wanted in Israel? Huckabee was woefully misinformed on his “fact-finding” mission to Israel.

The fact that there are still principled Jews who fight human rights abuses-- even by other Jews—is a testament to Judaism’s enduring ethics, which not even the last 120 years of Zionism has managed to eclipse and corrode.

Fringe Christians like Huckabee may have a lot in common with militant Zionists in the US and the ruling Zionists in Israel, but not mainstream Jews here who overwhelmingly see things through an American, democratic, and not Israali, lens.

]]> 2012-02-09T;19:12:00-05:00