JTA: The Global News Service of the Jewish People

09/03/09 12:14 PM

If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em… eh?

I find the logic in Heilman’s rant as questionable as the logic in Glover’s rant. Do the political opinions of a neurosurgeon have anything at all to do with her/his professional area of expertise? Do the political opinions of an astronaut impede or impair his/her professional competence? Why would the political opinions of a professional actor be held to a different standard?

Personally, I loath Mel Gibson’s political, religious and ethnic opinions. But I’ve enjoyed every “Lethal Weapon” movie because none of them are about his political, religious or ethnic opinions.

09/03/09 12:29 PM

I find it curious that you mention only the names of Danny Glover and Alice Walker among those signing the letter and not that of Jane Fonda or Ken Loach. Is it because both Glover and Walker happen to be African-American and you are indirectly hinting that this is another example of so-called “black anti-semitism” when the problem is more often the other way around? 

It is noteworthy that Fonda has joined them because in the past she had been a strong supporter of Israel. Maybe it’s another sign that it doesn’t take a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing.

09/03/09 01:02 PM

Tel Aviv contested ground?  If I remember my history correctly, the city was founded in 1909 by European Jews.  What’s contested about that?  What exactly are the boycotters boycotting then?  This is really frightening, because it is a modern example of a tactic refined by the Nazis: yell loud enough and long enough and your point takes on a life and legitimacy of its own.  If Tel Aviv is promoted as ‘contested ground’ that will equate in many minds as all of Israel being contested, i.e, illegitmate.

09/03/09 01:11 PM

Tel Aviv was originally a neighborhood in Jaffa—a city 4000 years old. So, yes, “contested works even for Tel Aviv.

09/03/09 01:14 PM

First off Danny Glover is a best buddy with Mel Gibson… Second of all just because he is an actor does not give him any extra brain power as is proven by Glover’s feeling towards Jews in general....
As for Tel Aviv being contested, hello Danny Glover the Arabs “ALL” feel that Israel should be wiped off the map meaning there should not be an Israel meaning that all of it is contested DA.........
The Glover’s & Gibson’s of the world abound because the churches for centuries have preached hatred & death to all Jews so this should not be a surprise. What “I HOPE IS NOT A SURPRISE IS THAT GLOVER CAN NO LONGER FIND WORK IN THE MOVIES” People like him should just fade away until he is reborn by his idea of a pretend god.

09/03/09 03:44 PM

I, for one, would like to see you print an entire list of the “celebrities” who affirm that Tel Aviv is “contested” territory.  I wouldn’t be surprised if most of their managers and agents are MOT’s who should be “educated” about this issue.

09/03/09 10:31 PM

Tel Aviv was not a neighborhood of Jaffa.  It was uninhabited sand-dunes a good distance from Jaffa.  Nobody lived there when Jews fleeing Arab attacks in Jaffa moved there for safety and security.  Consult any standard history of the period.

09/04/09 02:10 AM

But quite apart from where Tel Aviv was and is located, the supposition that land inside Israel proper is “contested ground” essentially supports the peace-rejecting anti-Zionist polemic that Israel has no legitimacy per se, even within the 1967 borders, and, because Palestinians wish to wipe it out, we must conclude that all of it is merely “contested ground.” The United Nations itself radified the establishment of Israel in 1948, after resolving that it had a right to be established in 1947.  All the major nations of the world endorsed this and recognized Israel, and even Egypt and Jordan have joined them in this, formally declaring peace with it.  Israel at least within the green line is not contested ground at all, although we may properly accept that the West Bank and Gaza can be characterized as “Disputed Territory” (not “Occupied,” for reasons I have given elsewhere at this website), and so when the Palestinians are willing to come to a real peace treaty, adjustments can be made to provide for a state of “Palestine” that has never existed as such up to now in history. 

Contested borders, by the way, do not mean that the states involved are “contested,” only that the borders at certain points are.  No illegitiimacy arises from this.  There are plenty of nations whose borders are still contested, but no one for example supposes that China is “contested” and illegitimate because of its aggression against India and seizures of certain areas, its contested takeover of Tibet, its contested claims on Taiwan, or other conflict regions.  Or that Russia is illegitimate because of its dubious borders now enclosing such satellites as Western Ossetia and Chechnya.  Spain still occasionally suffers from separatist terrorist movements “contesting” various provinces; no one supposes that Spain does not exist legitimately.  Saudi Arabia’s border with Yemen is contested; does that mean that all of Saudi Arabia is “contested territory” and that it is not a legitimate state? 

Just to repeat something from a previous thread, there are four chief traits of antisemitism: Demonization, Delegitimatization, Double Standards (Natan Sharansky’s “three Ds") and Obsessiveness.  The attempt to wish away Israel’s very successful 60 years of existence shows the “delegitimization” trait quite clearly, and so does the underlying demonizing supposition that Israel alone among the nations of the world is illegitimate: this is also blatant double standards.  As for obsessiveness, see Ehren’s other posts at this Jewish website.  I would suggest to him that he grow up, stop picking on others, and get a life.

09/04/09 01:22 PM

So, can we conclude that all the 50+ signers are anti-Semites??

09/05/09 03:51 AM

If you say so, Terry.  After all, antisemitism has at various periods even in the recent past overwhelmed majority populations, played a part in world wars, expressed itself in outright genocide, influenced many classic works in Western and Middle Eastern literature and religious scriptures, and is now at 90% in most Arab countries.  Antisemitism is a clear and present danger to the world, not the Jews, not Israel, but antisemitism.  It has been a major and central expression of authoritarian and especially totalitarian movements down through the centuries.  It has been “justified” by all kinds of intellectual contructions in defense of all kinds of currently fashionable ideas.  Hatred and delegitimization of the only Jewish state in the world is a major obsession of many especially on the left within the Western self-considered intelligentsia and artistic elite. 

Since antisemitism has appealed to so many contradictory groups, anti-capitalist, anti-communist, anti-religious and anti-secular, anti-traditional and anti-modernist, there are a multitude of clever and fashionable ways it might appeal to the 50+ signers, who might therefore buy into it in some ways without endorsing all other expressions of it.  So people can be more or less antisemitic in practice and belief.  Denying the legitimacy of Tel Aviv is antisemitic in foundation.  But this does not mean that each signer is fully antisemitic in other respects.  And even if they are, this still does not mean that they knowingly endorse the consequences of their own delegitimization of Israel, which of course is the annihilation and wiping out of the entire city, along with the rest of the state.  There is naturally no other way, realistically speaking, that Tel Aviv would disappear.  You can depend on it: the Israelis would defend their right to life and to live in Israel.  But many of the 50 + signers may well just be the usual sort of artistic and faddish simpletons.