Siegman: Israel = apartheid http://blogs.jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/siegman-israel-apartheid1/ In a essay for The Nation, Henry Siegman, a one-time leader of the American Jewish Congress who jumped to the think-tank world, plays the apartheid card against Israel. en-us aeden@jta.org Copyright 2010 2010-01-11T;18:17:00-05:00 Comment by Lowell D. Black lowell@013.net Henry Siegman may well have distinguished credentials to his name and positions in his career, but many of these have been earned largely by virtue of his stance on Israel. The world who hates the Jews loves to hear sophisticated, urbane Jews trash Israel as it is mere grist for their mills. Siegman is one of the few Jews to have unfettered access to Saudi Arabia and there can be little speculation as to how much money comes his way as a paid lobbyist and apologist for the Saudis. That he never ever condemns or even mildly criticizes Arab nations and despotic regimes – including his patron, the Saudis - in any way but reserves his harshest judgments for Israel, speaks volumes.  The outpouring of venom towards the Jewish State and his singling out of Israel as the evil incarnate in the world, and what clearly appears to be the harboring of a very deep and visceral hatred for Israel, makes one wonder about him as a human being and as a Jew. After all, the term “selbsthass” was coined by a Jewish psychologist to describe this specifically Jewish phenomenon. Henry Siegman may well have distinguished credentials to his name and positions in his career, but many of these have been earned largely by virtue of his stance on Israel. The world who hates the Jews loves to hear sophisticated, urbane Jews trash Israel as it is mere grist for their mills. Siegman is one of the few Jews to have unfettered access to Saudi Arabia and there can be little speculation as to how much money comes his way as a paid lobbyist and apologist for the Saudis. That he never ever condemns or even mildly criticizes Arab nations and despotic regimes – including his patron, the Saudis - in any way but reserves his harshest judgments for Israel, speaks volumes.  The outpouring of venom towards the Jewish State and his singling out of Israel as the evil incarnate in the world, and what clearly appears to be the harboring of a very deep and visceral hatred for Israel, makes one wonder about him as a human being and as a Jew. After all, the term “selbsthass” was coined by a Jewish psychologist to describe this specifically Jewish phenomenon.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by steve mann 123tubalcane@googlemail.com I am not into name calling- However the “masochistic” views of some “born” Jews who constantly run Israel down, some who openly support the “Palestinians” really leaves a bitter taste. Consider this. If when the British government gave all that land to the Hashemite ruler Abdullah. Who had no connection to Palestine as they came from the Hijaz (Now Saudi) They also had given the remainder to the Hebrews. I wonder how many of the 6 million would have been saved. A place to run to without quotas.- Without waiting for some bureaucrat to let you off a ship and send you back to Berlin. I am not into name calling- However the “masochistic” views of some “born” Jews who constantly run Israel down, some who openly support the “Palestinians” really leaves a bitter taste.
Consider this.
If when the British government gave all that land to the Hashemite ruler Abdullah. Who had no connection to Palestine as they came from the Hijaz (Now Saudi) They also had given the remainder to the Hebrews.

I wonder how many of the 6 million would have been saved. A place to run to without quotas.- Without waiting for some bureaucrat to let you off a ship and send you back to Berlin.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Michael Kaplan mlkap@earthlink.net I am certain that use of the term,"apartheid"is not a helpful term to use in discussing the complex questions of the middle east. Although Mr.Seigman’s quotes from various Israeli leaders are accurate,this term only inflames people without enabling a substantive discussion as to why Israel must give up most of the west bank. Additionally,what ever happened to manners? Some of the above writers engage in very unhelpful use of language e.g. calling Mr. Seigman “self hating” is outrageous given his long service to the Jewish community and to Israel. And the term “Quisling” is unforgivable. Michael Portland,OR I am certain that use of the term,"apartheid"is not a helpful term to use in discussing the complex questions of the middle east. Although Mr.Seigman’s quotes from various Israeli leaders are accurate,this term only inflames people without enabling a substantive discussion as to why Israel must give up most of the west bank. Additionally,what ever happened to manners? Some of the above writers engage in very unhelpful use of language e.g. calling Mr. Seigman “self hating” is outrageous given his long service to the Jewish community and to Israel. And the term “Quisling” is unforgivable. Michael Portland,OR

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by steve mann 123tubalcane@googlemail.com The first is the Balfour Declaration of 1917: An official letter from the British Foreign Office headed by Lord Arthur Balfour, the UK’s Foreign Secretary (from December 1916 to October 1919), to Baron Rothschild, who was seen as a representative of the Jewish people. The letter stated that the British government “view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.” Israel has kept her side of the bargain- with 1.5 million Muslim Israelis and other other denominations. To surrender Judea and Samaria is suicide- it would leave a 9 kilometre width up to the Med. And the they would be up against this:- Here I quote from The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement. (HAMAS) “Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts, . The Islamic Resistance movement is but one squadron that should be supported… until the enemy is vanquished and Allah victory is realized. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.......” And this:- Hezbollah’s charter (pdf format) clearly states: Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated. There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. If that is acceptable to some then to “Heck” with anything else- Israel must do whatever she has to to survive. The first is the Balfour Declaration of 1917: An official letter from the British Foreign Office headed by Lord Arthur Balfour, the UK’s Foreign Secretary (from December 1916 to October 1919), to Baron Rothschild, who was seen as a representative of the Jewish people. The letter stated that the British government “view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

Israel has kept her side of the bargain- with 1.5 million Muslim Israelis and other other denominations.
To surrender Judea and Samaria is suicide- it would leave a 9 kilometre width up to the Med.
And the they would be up against this:-

Here I quote from The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement. (HAMAS)

“Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts,
. The Islamic Resistance movement is but one squadron that should be supported… until the enemy is vanquished and Allah victory is realized. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.......”

And this:-
Hezbollah’s charter (pdf format) clearly states:
Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.

If that is acceptable to some then to “Heck” with anything else- Israel must do whatever she has to to survive.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Michael Levin MichaelLevin11@mac.com “The Balfour Declaration, made in November 1917 by the British Government...was made a) by a European power, b) about a non-European territory, c) in flat disregard of both the presence and wishes of the native majority resident in that territory...[As Balfour himself wrote in 1919], ‘The contradiction between the letter of the Covenant (the Anglo French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of the former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence) is even more flagrant in the case of the independent nation of Palestine than in that of the independent nation of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country...The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land,’” ~Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.” “The world stands on three pillars: The truth, the justice and the peace. And these three are indeed one. When justice is served, truth is served, peace is served.” ~Rabbi Shimon Ben-Gamliel “The Balfour Declaration, made in November 1917 by the British Government...was made a) by a European power, b) about a non-European territory, c) in flat disregard of both the presence and wishes of the native majority resident in that territory...[As Balfour himself wrote in 1919], ‘The contradiction between the letter of the Covenant (the Anglo French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of the former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence) is even more flagrant in the case of the independent nation of Palestine than in that of the independent nation of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country...The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land,’”
~Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”

“The world stands on three pillars: The truth, the justice and the peace. And these three are indeed one. When justice is served, truth is served, peace is served.”
~Rabbi Shimon Ben-Gamliel

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by steve mann 123tubalcane@googlemail.com Over and over again the world and including Mr Siegman forget that the last nation that occupied Palestine and held the mandate was Britain. Balfour promised it all to be returned to the Hebrew Nation. G.B reneged on its promise and gave 80% of it to the Hashemites. The Partition resolution 181 of the UN went through the window when the Muslim nations refused to sign up to it and went to war. Look at the map Mr Siegman, look at the covenants and charters of the Muslim brotherhood (Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Islamic Jihad for example) and now give Judea and Samaria (The West Bank) to the power of these people and you are asking Israel to commit suicide. If we are looking at the humanitarian side then let the surrounding Muslim states absorb these refugees as they should have done in 1950. Over and over again the world and including Mr Siegman forget that the last nation that occupied Palestine and held the mandate was Britain.
Balfour promised it all to be returned to the Hebrew Nation.
G.B reneged on its promise and gave 80% of it to the Hashemites.
The Partition resolution 181 of the UN went through the window when the Muslim nations refused to sign up to it and went to war.
Look at the map Mr Siegman, look at the covenants and charters of the Muslim brotherhood (Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Islamic Jihad for example) and now give Judea and Samaria (The West Bank) to the power of these people and you are asking Israel to commit suicide.

If we are looking at the humanitarian side then let the surrounding Muslim states absorb these refugees as they should have done in 1950.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Robert L. Blumenblatt Ludvikus@aol.com Is the “apartheid”? Yes. But the victims are comfused. The fact is that no Jews or Israelis are supposed to live outside of the 1967 borders where Arabs or Muslims live. It strange, in the extreme, as to the analysis of this situation. Why should the issue of future borders means that “no Jews are to live here”? And I’m shocked that not a single voice have I heard, Jewish or otherwise, objecting to the prohibtion of Jews living outside of 1967 Israel. Why? Is Israel to be thought of as some huge “Gheto,” or the new “Pale of Settlement (Tsarist Russia/Poland)? Why must a “Jew-free” Palestine be the future state of the Palestinians? After all, Israel wasn’t, and isn’t, “Palestinian -free.” Is the “apartheid”? Yes. But the victims are comfused. The fact is that no Jews or Israelis are supposed to live outside of the 1967 borders where Arabs or Muslims live. It strange, in the extreme, as to the analysis of this situation.

Why should the issue of future borders means that “no Jews are to live here”?

And I’m shocked that not a single voice have I heard, Jewish or otherwise, objecting to the prohibtion of Jews living outside of 1967 Israel. Why? Is Israel to be thought of as some huge “Gheto,” or the new “Pale of Settlement (Tsarist Russia/Poland)?

Why must a “Jew-free” Palestine be the future state of the Palestinians? After all, Israel wasn’t, and isn’t, “Palestinian -free.”

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Joel Frangquist jfrangquist@hampshire.edu I can’t believe how laughable it is that David Ben-Ariel is trying to convince us that Apartheid was not that bad.  (This is aside from the eerie parallel to holocaust denial, which isn’t laughable at all.) There are only two logical conclusions from what David is saying: 1) That pro-Israel folks should be less offended when Israel’s policies are compared to Apartheid, or… 2) That the comparison to Apartheid understates the evil of the occupation. I can’t believe how laughable it is that David Ben-Ariel is trying to convince us that Apartheid was not that bad.  (This is aside from the eerie parallel to holocaust denial, which isn’t laughable at all.)

There are only two logical conclusions from what David is saying:

1) That pro-Israel folks should be less offended when Israel’s policies are compared to Apartheid, or…

2) That the comparison to Apartheid understates the evil of the occupation.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by simon fishman simonfmd@hotmail.com Not only is Siegman delusional but he is even out of step with Arab Israeli citizens who in no way want their towns turned over to “Palestinian” control http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/warpedmirror/entry/palestian_identity_and_statehood_posted When suggestions to include Israeli-Arab towns such as Umm el-Fahm in a land swap were debated in anticipation of the Annapolis talks in 2007, the heads of all of the Arab regional councils and cities in Israel objected in an official letter: We wish to express our sharp opposition to any initiative taken by the State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority with regard to our civil, political and human rights [...] We wish to make it clear that as citizens of the State of Israel since 1948-1949 [...] the proposed moving of borders will deprive us of these human rights and tear apart the social and economic ties that have been constructed on the basis of a long and difficult struggle.” Not only is Siegman delusional but he is even out of step with Arab Israeli citizens who in no way want their towns turned over to “Palestinian” control

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/warpedmirror/entry/palestian_identity_and_statehood_posted

When suggestions to include Israeli-Arab towns such as Umm el-Fahm in a land swap were debated in anticipation of the Annapolis talks in 2007, the heads of all of the Arab regional councils and cities in Israel objected in an official letter:

We wish to express our sharp opposition to any initiative taken by the State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority with regard to our civil, political and human rights [...] We wish to make it clear that as citizens of the State of Israel since 1948-1949 [...] the proposed moving of borders will deprive us of these human rights and tear apart the social and economic ties that have been constructed on the basis of a long and difficult struggle.”

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by David Ben-Ariel davidbenariel@bex.net Not only do self-hating Jews and Israel-bashers expose their woeful ignorance of the facts on the ground in Israel, they reveal a disturbing lack of education when it comes to apartheid as formerly practiced in South Africa before the ANC communists and terrorist Nelson Mandela were empowered to destroy the nation. How Evil was Apartheid? Not only do self-hating Jews and Israel-bashers expose their woeful ignorance of the facts on the ground in Israel, they reveal a disturbing lack of education when it comes to apartheid as formerly practiced in South Africa before the ANC communists and terrorist Nelson Mandela were empowered to destroy the nation.

How Evil was Apartheid?

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by David Ben-Ariel davidbenariel@bex.net The Arab-occupied dismembered parts of the Jewish homeland known as the “Palestinian” territories are Judenrein by demand and yet the world ignores such apartheid? Both the United States and Israel acquiesce to such irony (remember Ariel Sharon?) and expel Jews when Israel would do well to expel their sworn Arab enemies, as Meir Kahane courageously called for saying they must go - reminding the nation of the Law of Moses that instructs them to enforce peace through strength. Peace Now: Arabs and Jews Must Go Their Separate Ways The Arab-occupied dismembered parts of the Jewish homeland known as the “Palestinian” territories are Judenrein by demand and yet the world ignores such apartheid? Both the United States and Israel acquiesce to such irony (remember Ariel Sharon?) and expel Jews when Israel would do well to expel their sworn Arab enemies, as Meir Kahane courageously called for saying they must go - reminding the nation of the Law of Moses that instructs them to enforce peace through strength.

Peace Now: Arabs and Jews Must Go Their Separate Ways

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Kevin Kamberg oregonrainsticks@gmail.com It’s instructive to note how Siegman’s critics have lined up here to attack/dismiss him while glibly ignoring the substance of his argument. It’s instructive to note how Siegman’s critics have lined up here to attack/dismiss him while glibly ignoring the substance of his argument.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Salomon Benzimra sbenzi@sympatico.ca “Professor” Siegman evidently never heard of the legal rights of Israel, as they were set in the early 1920s under international law.  He can talk about the “occupied West Bank”, the “apartheid state” and the other usual distortions of the State of Israel, once he wrapped himself in a thick cloak of ignorance. “Professor” Siegman evidently never heard of the legal rights of Israel, as they were set in the early 1920s under international law.  He can talk about the “occupied West Bank”, the “apartheid state” and the other usual distortions of the State of Israel, once he wrapped himself in a thick cloak of ignorance.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Alex Golan 74rivka@msn.com Prof. Siegman has added as much to the Israeli-Arab conflict as the benighted Jimmy Carter - ZERO! He is nothing more than a shill for the, oh soo, “enlightened” Norwegian Peacebuilding Center in Oslo that commissioned this “objective” report. The Norwegians who awarded the worthless Nobel Prize for Peace to the equally worthless B.H. Obama have a proud tradition of anti-Semitism and cooperation with the Nazis; after all,the name of their beloved “Leader”, Vidkun Quisling, entered the dictionary as the definition for a Nazi collaborator. Siegman is of the same ilk as the Kapos in the Ghettos and Concentration Camps. Prof. Siegman has added as much to the Israeli-Arab conflict as the benighted Jimmy Carter - ZERO! He is nothing more than a shill for the, oh soo, “enlightened” Norwegian Peacebuilding Center in Oslo that commissioned this “objective” report. The Norwegians who awarded the worthless Nobel Prize for Peace to the equally worthless B.H. Obama have a proud tradition of anti-Semitism and cooperation with the Nazis; after all,the name of their beloved “Leader”, Vidkun Quisling, entered the dictionary as the definition for a Nazi collaborator. Siegman is of the same ilk as the Kapos in the Ghettos and Concentration Camps.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Michael Levin MichaelLevin11@mac.com For Henry Siegman’s full article “Imposing Middle East Peace” - http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100125/siegman ["Henry Siegman, director of the U.S./Middle East Project in New York, is a visiting research professor at the Sir Joseph Hotung Middle East Program, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. He is a former national director of the American Jewish Congress and of the Synagogue Council of America."] Also available online: Henry Siegman, The Great Middle East Peace Process Scam, London Review of Books, Vol. 29 No. 16 · 16 August 2007 http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam [Excerpt] “The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel’s interest in a peace process – other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo – has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon, is ‘to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people’.” For Henry Siegman’s full article “Imposing Middle East Peace” -
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100125/siegman

["Henry Siegman, director of the U.S./Middle East Project in New York, is a visiting research professor at the Sir Joseph Hotung Middle East Program, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. He is a former national director of the American Jewish Congress and of the Synagogue Council of America."]

Also available online: Henry Siegman, The Great Middle East Peace Process Scam, London Review of Books, Vol. 29 No. 16 · 16 August 2007
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/henry-siegman/the-great-middle-east-peace-process-scam

[Excerpt] “The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel’s interest in a peace process – other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo – has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon, is ‘to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people’.”

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Herbert Kaine herbertkaine@hotmail.com Henry Siegman is a professional Israel basher who is in part responsible for the plight of the Palestinians by supporting their most radical demands without combating the incitement that makes peace impossible. I would like to know who funds him Henry Siegman is a professional Israel basher who is in part responsible for the plight of the Palestinians by supporting their most radical demands without combating the incitement that makes peace impossible. I would like to know who funds him

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00