Bibi was besieged by settlement talk http://blogs.jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/bibi-was-besieged-by-settlement-talk/ Benjamin Netanyahu got an earful from Congress, too, over settlements while in Washington. en-us efingerhut@jta.org Copyright 2009 2009-05-27T;19:40:00-05:00 Comment by Peter Wedlund peterwedlund@yahoo.com Howard: I think arguing about land acquired over 150 years ago is a little silly.  Europeans conquered and took control, period.  It happened in North, Central and South America between 1500-1800 A.D. , 200-500 years ago.  Today we view the treatment of the Native Americans as pretty brutal and inhumane by today’s standards.  However, we aren’t going to solve those issues nor will anyone by living in the past.  Native Americans have the full rights of any US citizen.  The US has tried to resolve its disputes with Native Americans peacefully and equitably.  Most legal cases have actually been favorable to Native Americans. Israel has a right to exist.  No one is arguing that point.  The peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan have now led to a general recognition of Israel’s sovereignty by the most of the Arab world.  The major problem now resides with how Israel deals with its neighbor the Palestinian Arabs.  Mistreating your neighbor isn’t going to make them your friend or facilitate peace in the region.  Taking their land isn’t going to improve that relationship.  Encouraging anger, hate or fear is going to create more and not fewer terrorists. The US is has always been stuck in the middle of this because of our support for Israel.  Israeli’s view our efforts as compromising their security.  We are always pressuring them toward peace, while the others in the world view the US as facilitating the abuses by Israel.  There are few Americans who relish this precarious position in the middle for the US—we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.  Having grown up watching Israel, it has become much less tolerate and much more militant in its attitude toward its neighbors.  That has not been a good direction to head and I say that as a friend.  The more you do to encourage hate, anger and fear the more you do harm to yourself.  Israel must indeed solve its problems and issues with the Palestinians and if we think about that there are only a few paths by which this can happen. The preferred path is that you work with the PA and live in peace.  You rebuild the lost trust, confidence and hope that you can work together and find common ground.  You slowly dismantle the barriers that reflect the physical manifestations of the distrust, hate and anger as you build greater cooperation.  This is the path Obama wishes to encourage.  The second path is the one you are on currently.  You continue to suppress, take land, abuse and facilitate more hate.  The more you try to protect yourself from the fire you feed, the more that fire will threaten to consume you.  We know where this pathway leads, it produces more terrorists, more bombings and more snipers because when people have nothing to lose they have no reason not to fight, kill and die.  The third path is what more radical elements in Israel already want to do --wipe out or displace all Palestinians, take everything and have more Jewish settlers immigrate into the new territory.  This will meet with major worldwide condemnation and ostracism. It will likely lead to sanctions against Israel by the entire world.  Your neighbors will be more not less suspicious of your intentions and your neighbors will likely view any peace with Israel null and void.  Israel will have solved one problem only to create a new and bigger one. The Jewish community has plenty of people who are very intelligent.  However, fear prevents rational thinking.  Fear dominates over logic.  I see many in the Jewish community embracing this fear and let it control them.  Palestinians are out to kill them.  Iran wants to destroy them.  Hamas has vowed death to Israel.  The Arab world supports the extremist efforts to destroy Jews.  Hyperbole replaces hope.  Fear replaces reason.  What MIGHT happen replaces what WILL happen. The irrational replaces the rational. Now is the time for thinking about which path to follow instead of being guided down a specific path and accepting it as the only one.  The US is happy to support Israel taking the path of peace.  Obama would likely provide additional developmental resources to help that process along and encourage it.  I can’t see him doing the same for the other two paths.  It is Israel’s choice, totally your choice.  I have never suggested otherwise. Howard:
I think arguing about land acquired over 150 years ago is a little silly.  Europeans conquered and took control, period.  It happened in North, Central and South America between 1500-1800 A.D. , 200-500 years ago.  Today we view the treatment of the Native Americans as pretty brutal and inhumane by today’s standards.  However, we aren’t going to solve those issues nor will anyone by living in the past.  Native Americans have the full rights of any US citizen.  The US has tried to resolve its disputes with Native Americans peacefully and equitably.  Most legal cases have actually been favorable to Native Americans.
Israel has a right to exist.  No one is arguing that point.  The peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan have now led to a general recognition of Israel’s sovereignty by the most of the Arab world.  The major problem now resides with how Israel deals with its neighbor the Palestinian Arabs.  Mistreating your neighbor isn’t going to make them your friend or facilitate peace in the region.  Taking their land isn’t going to improve that relationship.  Encouraging anger, hate or fear is going to create more and not fewer terrorists.
The US is has always been stuck in the middle of this because of our support for Israel.  Israeli’s view our efforts as compromising their security.  We are always pressuring them toward peace, while the others in the world view the US as facilitating the abuses by Israel.  There are few Americans who relish this precarious position in the middle for the US—we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. 
Having grown up watching Israel, it has become much less tolerate and much more militant in its attitude toward its neighbors.  That has not been a good direction to head and I say that as a friend.  The more you do to encourage hate, anger and fear the more you do harm to yourself.  Israel must indeed solve its problems and issues with the Palestinians and if we think about that there are only a few paths by which this can happen.
The preferred path is that you work with the PA and live in peace.  You rebuild the lost trust, confidence and hope that you can work together and find common ground.  You slowly dismantle the barriers that reflect the physical manifestations of the distrust, hate and anger as you build greater cooperation.  This is the path Obama wishes to encourage. 
The second path is the one you are on currently.  You continue to suppress, take land, abuse and facilitate more hate.  The more you try to protect yourself from the fire you feed, the more that fire will threaten to consume you.  We know where this pathway leads, it produces more terrorists, more bombings and more snipers because when people have nothing to lose they have no reason not to fight, kill and die. 
The third path is what more radical elements in Israel already want to do --wipe out or displace all Palestinians, take everything and have more Jewish settlers immigrate into the new territory.  This will meet with major worldwide condemnation and ostracism. It will likely lead to sanctions against Israel by the entire world.  Your neighbors will be more not less suspicious of your intentions and your neighbors will likely view any peace with Israel null and void.  Israel will have solved one problem only to create a new and bigger one.
The Jewish community has plenty of people who are very intelligent.  However, fear prevents rational thinking.  Fear dominates over logic.  I see many in the Jewish community embracing this fear and let it control them.  Palestinians are out to kill them.  Iran wants to destroy them.  Hamas has vowed death to Israel.  The Arab world supports the extremist efforts to destroy Jews.  Hyperbole replaces hope.  Fear replaces reason.  What MIGHT happen replaces what WILL happen. The irrational replaces the rational. Now is the time for thinking about which path to follow instead of being guided down a specific path and accepting it as the only one.  The US is happy to support Israel taking the path of peace.  Obama would likely provide additional developmental resources to help that process along and encourage it.  I can’t see him doing the same for the other two paths.  It is Israel’s choice, totally your choice.  I have never suggested otherwise.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Howard Cohn fossilh@aol.com Peter Wedlund makes some interesting comments.  U.S. respect for private property and settlements.  Some settlement land was built on land bought and owned by Jews before the State of Israel was declared.  Other land bought after the ‘67 war.  Other settlements built on state land, with no private ownership.  Some on private land. As to his declaration that the U.S. bought land from France, Spain and Russia and therefore did not steal it from those originally living there, You buy stolen property from a thief and it is still stolen property.  Israel was attacked in ‘67 and won a defensive war.  The allies fought and won a defensive war during WWII.  Border adjustments were made and remain to this day in parts of Europe and Asia as a result of the Allied victory.  The same should be true for Israel.  No rockets are raining down from Judea and Samaria because of the Israeli presence there.  The first walls built between Israel and P.A. territory were built to prevent sniper attacks that were taking place against Israeli citizens. Israel should tell those U.S. members of Congress and B. H. Obama that the survival of Israel cannot and will not be based on promises from the U.S..  The settlement issue must be decided between Israel and Palestinian Arabs once they accept the fact that Israel will not fold or disappear and once their people want peace more than dead Jews. To rely on J-Street and A.P.N. for accurate polls and numbers of their supporters is like buying a “pig in a poke.” Israel must look to it’s own survival and make decisions on that. If Israel did not exist, the Arabs and Moslems would still be fighting each other and the infidels, without the excuse of we’re doing it for the Palestinians. Peter Wedlund makes some interesting comments.  U.S. respect for private property and settlements.  Some settlement land was built on land bought and owned by Jews before the State of Israel was declared.  Other land bought after the ‘67 war.  Other settlements built on state land, with no private ownership.  Some on private land.
As to his declaration that the U.S. bought land from France, Spain and Russia and therefore did not steal it from those originally living there, You buy stolen property from a thief and it is still stolen property. 
Israel was attacked in ‘67 and won a defensive war.  The allies fought and won a defensive war during WWII.  Border adjustments were made and remain to this day in parts of Europe and Asia as a result of the Allied victory.  The same should be true for Israel.  No rockets are raining down from Judea and Samaria because of the Israeli presence there.  The first walls built between Israel and P.A. territory were built to prevent sniper attacks that were taking place against Israeli citizens.
Israel should tell those U.S. members of Congress and B. H. Obama that the survival of Israel cannot and will not be based on promises from the U.S..  The settlement issue must be decided between Israel and Palestinian Arabs once they accept the fact that Israel will not fold or disappear and once their people want peace more than dead Jews.
To rely on J-Street and A.P.N. for accurate polls and numbers of their supporters is like buying a “pig in a poke.”
Israel must look to it’s own survival and make decisions on that.
If Israel did not exist, the Arabs and Moslems would still be fighting each other and the infidels, without the excuse of we’re doing it for the Palestinians.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Peter Wedlund peterwedlund@yahoo.com You need to watch what happens with North Korea.  It will be a prelude to how the US deals with the Iranian situation.  Historically, the US has not favored direct confrontation and rapid escalation of tensions.  We have typically favored a graded response.  You up the ante as necessary when countries refuse to work with you, you do not go in and bomb them because you THINK they might do something.  Some of you are way too reactionary and have no clue as to how high level diplomacy works.  Thus far, I haven’t heard of any missiles raining down on Israel from the West Bank, so what makes anyone feel that will be the outcome of a negotiated peace deal with the PA?  That is just an attempt to induce fear and justification for irrational behavior.  Obama has already indicated he would rather not see a divided Jerusalem.  I think most of the US public would rather people be free to move freely without the walls and numerous barriers they now endure.  It has not always been this way.  The real stresses and tension started growing after Arafat failed to sign a peace deal with Israel in 2000.  If people would let go of their fear and focus on rebuilding trust between one another instead of being so hell bent on destroying everything at each turn new hope might yet be realized.  Doom and gloom scenarios have a habit of becoming self-fulfilling prophesies.  You choose your own path don’t blame anyone else for the road you take.  No one can predict the future because it is always subject to change.  This much I can assure you.  The USA is not going to war with Iran, Russia or China.  Obama is interested in working with them to help address the conflicts in the world.  Continued conflicts are not in the best interest of anyone. Finding common ground is in everyone’s interest.  Opposing that goal are people who merely want to encourage fear, tension and hate.  Those who wish to encourage greater conflict are out of touch with the changes already taking place in Washington.  Read some of Obama’s speeches.  They are neither naive nor detached from reality.  That merely talk about a different approach to how he intends to solve problems—listening and working with others – cooperatively building bridges instead of barriers, unions instead of divisions and hope instead of hate.  The end of the self-interest driven, control at all costs, threaten and brow beat your adversary is over.  The US will be more successful by focusing on common interests, common objectives, common goals that unite and solve problems instead of the policies that increase hate, anger, fear and divisions that divide and lead to war and death. You need to watch what happens with North Korea.  It will be a prelude to how the US deals with the Iranian situation.  Historically, the US has not favored direct confrontation and rapid escalation of tensions.  We have typically favored a graded response.  You up the ante as necessary when countries refuse to work with you, you do not go in and bomb them because you THINK they might do something.  Some of you are way too reactionary and have no clue as to how high level diplomacy works. 

Thus far, I haven’t heard of any missiles raining down on Israel from the West Bank, so what makes anyone feel that will be the outcome of a negotiated peace deal with the PA?  That is just an attempt to induce fear and justification for irrational behavior. 

Obama has already indicated he would rather not see a divided Jerusalem.  I think most of the US public would rather people be free to move freely without the walls and numerous barriers they now endure.  It has not always been this way.  The real stresses and tension started growing after Arafat failed to sign a peace deal with Israel in 2000.  If people would let go of their fear and focus on rebuilding trust between one another instead of being so hell bent on destroying everything at each turn new hope might yet be realized. 

Doom and gloom scenarios have a habit of becoming self-fulfilling prophesies.  You choose your own path don’t blame anyone else for the road you take.  No one can predict the future because it is always subject to change.  This much I can assure you.  The USA is not going to war with Iran, Russia or China.  Obama is interested in working with them to help address the conflicts in the world.  Continued conflicts are not in the best interest of anyone. Finding common ground is in everyone’s interest.  Opposing that goal are people who merely want to encourage fear, tension and hate.  Those who wish to encourage greater conflict are out of touch with the changes already taking place in Washington.  Read some of Obama’s speeches.  They are neither naive nor detached from reality.  That merely talk about a different approach to how he intends to solve problems—listening and working with others – cooperatively building bridges instead of barriers, unions instead of divisions and hope instead of hate.  The end of the self-interest driven, control at all costs, threaten and brow beat your adversary is over.  The US will be more successful by focusing on common interests, common objectives, common goals that unite and solve problems instead of the policies that increase hate, anger, fear and divisions that divide and lead to war and death.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by William Mohlenhoff hoffmill@sbcglobal.net I should have stated that I was a carrier fighter pilot in the U. S. Navy with combat and test flying for 29 years, retiring as a Navy Captain. I was second and third senior to the 3-star Admiral who commanded the carrier task force in Viet Nam, earning the Legion of Merit and a recommendation for ADVANCED promotion to the rank of Admiral.. I engineered and analyzed the aircraft needs of the Navy in regard to their carrier aircraft and missile requirements. I managed the initiation of the F-14 Tomcat aircraft that was the top gun aircraft in the movie with that title. I actually helped establish the top-gun tracking systems that trained Navy fighter pilots. I managed and wrote the analysis studies that started the F-18 fighter program for the Navy by Mcdonnell and Northrop Aircraft. Retiring to accept a position with Northrop aircraft, I worked with new fighter systems in the Northrop advanced design departments, managing the critical design areas of the aircraft and analyzing Navy requirements. I have earned the degrees of BS in Naval officer and aviator training, BS in engineering, AE in engineering from CalTech and MBA in business management and finance from UCLA; over 11 years of academic studies in top universities. I have been a Christian believer all of my life. after 25 years of intense study of the logic of Christianity and the End Time prophecies of the Christian and Jewish Bibles, I have written the book, “Omega Chronicles”, available on authorhouse.com. The prophecy studies indicate that the End Times have begun when Israel returned to their land and are now well along, with specific prophetic passages indicating USA wars with Iran, Russia and China and their allies, in succession, over a 7-year Apocalypse. I am Captain William Mohlenhoff, U. S, Navy, Retired, now President of a joint venture entrepreneurial high technology enterprise that has developed a system to strengthen masonry buildings against earthquakes, winds, bomb blasts and deterioration. Pen-name is Will Hoffmill, author of the book, “Omega Chronicles”, that details the Bible prophecies in a logical way that is not fictional but is essentially a plan of the Creator and the opposing Archangel, Satan. The Creation and the entire history of man is summarized and the essence of Christian belief is given in logical format. I should have stated that I was a carrier fighter pilot in the U. S. Navy with combat and test flying for 29 years, retiring as a Navy Captain. I was second and third senior to the 3-star Admiral who commanded the carrier task force in Viet Nam, earning the Legion of Merit and a recommendation for ADVANCED promotion to the rank of Admiral.. I engineered and analyzed the aircraft needs of the Navy in regard to their carrier aircraft and missile requirements. I managed the initiation of the F-14 Tomcat aircraft that was the top gun aircraft in the movie with that title. I actually helped establish the top-gun tracking systems that trained Navy fighter pilots. I managed and wrote the analysis studies that started the F-18 fighter program for the Navy by Mcdonnell and Northrop Aircraft. Retiring to accept a position with Northrop aircraft, I worked with new fighter systems in the Northrop advanced design departments, managing the critical design areas of the aircraft and analyzing Navy requirements. I have earned the degrees of BS in Naval officer and aviator training, BS in engineering, AE in engineering from CalTech and MBA in business management and finance from UCLA; over 11 years of academic studies in top universities.
I have been a Christian believer all of my life. after 25 years of intense study of the logic of Christianity and the End Time prophecies of the Christian and Jewish Bibles, I have written the book, “Omega Chronicles”, available on authorhouse.com. The prophecy studies indicate that the End Times have begun when Israel returned to their land and are now well along, with specific prophetic passages indicating USA wars with Iran, Russia and China and their allies, in succession, over a 7-year Apocalypse.
I am Captain William Mohlenhoff, U. S, Navy, Retired, now President of a joint venture entrepreneurial high technology enterprise that has developed a system to strengthen masonry buildings against earthquakes, winds, bomb blasts and deterioration.
Pen-name is Will Hoffmill, author of the book, “Omega Chronicles”, that details the Bible prophecies in a logical way that is not fictional but is essentially a plan of the Creator and the opposing Archangel, Satan. The Creation and the entire history of man is summarized and the essence of Christian belief is given in logical format.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by steve ornstein steve@israelseen.com I agree with Peter. The best thing that could happen is that we, Israelis stop taking blood money from the US and tell them to go to hell. with Jstreet and the rest of the traitors I agree with Peter. The best thing that could happen is that we, Israelis stop taking blood money from the US and tell them to go to hell. with Jstreet and the rest of the traitors

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by William Mohlenhoff hoffmill@sbcglobal.net I agree with Joyce. I have written a strong commentary on Rabbi Sacks in England who is concerned about these matters. If Israel gives up East Jerusalem for peace, as proposed by President Bush and now apparently President Obama, they will instead be starting a war of substantially increased intensity over the terrorist war now in progress. This could occur because the proponents of the 2-state solution do not take reality into consideration. If you allow the PA to take over East Jerusalem you give them high ground and an area wrapped around New Jerusalem that will allow them to attack on all sides with mortars and rifles, as well as the rockets now raining on Sderot from Gaza. East Jerusalem contains the Temple Mount and the sacred areas of Christianity there, such as the site of the crucifixion and burial of Jesus Christ. The Moslems have been desecrating many of the ancient sacred sites of the Jews and Christians in such areas as Bethlehem, Jericho and Hebron. In addition to this security consideration, Hamas has taken over Gaza after Sharon turned it over to the PA. The same thing would happen to the PA in the West Bank because of the backing of Iran for their puppet, Hamas. Iran would then increase its efforts to destroy Israel, as they have threatened and as Hezbollah and Hamas have been attempting. The conclusion must be that the West Bank cannot be turned into a Palestinian state with its own sovereignty until Iran is dealt with and its aggressions stopped. It should be possible to stop Iran from providing the support for Hamas and Hezbollah that negates any nuclear threat through the superior airpower of both Israel and the U. S., but not Israel alone. Israel does not have the assets to defeat the defenses of Iran without great losses. The U. S. must act in a surprise attack with their specialized and highly efficient stealth capability and Israel and the U. S. can then defeat the Iranian aircraft defenses through their overwhelming numbers and superior aircraft and pilot capabilities. The U. S. should not force Israel to take on the Iranian air defenses alone. They are not prepared for this and would take great losses. The negotiations with the Arab neighbors of Israel and the Palestinians should initially arrive at a Palestinian state that is under Israeli sovereignty, then, after the U. S., Arabs and Israel build up a friendly state that is compatible with Israel and will control terrorism, the Palestinians can take over sovereignty. There is another problem that the present U. S. government does not understand. The Jews must be able to rebuild their sacred Temple on the Temple Mount in East Jerusalem in preparation for the prophesied End Time prophecies. Christians, Jews and Moslems all believe that the End Times are in progress, or about to occur. A large body of Christian believers in the U. S. are involved in these beliefs. The prophecies call for rebuilding of the Temple on the Temple Mount in East Jerusalem, but with the Moslems retaining their presence on the Temple mount with their Mosque and Dome of the Rock edifice. This can be done with construction on the only site that could have been the threshing floor that King David purchased for the Temple construction in about 1,000 BC. This is the site north of the Dome of the Rock. Israel must also control all of the Christian and Jewish sacred sites in the West Bank. We have addressed this in some detail in the comments about Rabbi Sacks in England. The Jews and Moslems must agree to occupy the Temple Mount together in a way that will prevent interference with each other. The way this can be done is covered in the Rabbi Sacks commentary. The Moslems must not occupy East Jerusalem but they could have a walled or tunnel access to the Temple Mount from the West Bank outside of East Jerusalem. The Jews have a full right to insist on their security and means to gain peace without U. S. political pressure and interference with their program for peace. Yet, the U. S. should immediately plan a strike on Iran with Israel to remove their nuclear capability. When Iran is no longer an effective supplier and supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah, true peace can be established with this incremental program to build up the West Bank economy and security from Iran and Hamas. I agree with Joyce. I have written a strong commentary on Rabbi Sacks in England who is concerned about these matters. If Israel gives up East Jerusalem for peace, as proposed by President Bush and now apparently President Obama, they will instead be starting a war of substantially increased intensity over the terrorist war now in progress. This could occur because the proponents of the 2-state solution do not take reality into consideration. If you allow the PA to take over East Jerusalem you give them high ground and an area wrapped around New Jerusalem that will allow them to attack on all sides with mortars and rifles, as well as the rockets now raining on Sderot from Gaza. East Jerusalem contains the Temple Mount and the sacred areas of Christianity there, such as the site of the crucifixion and burial of Jesus Christ. The Moslems have been desecrating many of the ancient sacred sites of the Jews and Christians in such areas as Bethlehem, Jericho and Hebron.
In addition to this security consideration, Hamas has taken over Gaza after Sharon turned it over to the PA. The same thing would happen to the PA in the West Bank because of the backing of Iran for their puppet, Hamas. Iran would then increase its efforts to destroy Israel, as they have threatened and as Hezbollah and Hamas have been attempting. The conclusion must be that the West Bank cannot be turned into a Palestinian state with its own sovereignty until Iran is dealt with and its aggressions stopped. It should be possible to stop Iran from providing the support for Hamas and Hezbollah that negates any nuclear threat through the superior airpower of both Israel and the U. S., but not Israel alone. Israel does not have the assets to defeat the defenses of Iran without great losses. The U. S. must act in a surprise attack with their specialized and highly efficient stealth capability and Israel and the U. S. can then defeat the Iranian aircraft defenses through their overwhelming numbers and superior aircraft and pilot capabilities. The U. S. should not force Israel to take on the Iranian air defenses alone. They are not prepared for this and would take great losses.
The negotiations with the Arab neighbors of Israel and the Palestinians should initially arrive at a Palestinian state that is under Israeli sovereignty, then, after the U. S., Arabs and Israel build up a friendly state that is compatible with Israel and will control terrorism, the Palestinians can take over sovereignty.
There is another problem that the present U. S. government does not understand. The Jews must be able to rebuild their sacred Temple on the Temple Mount in East Jerusalem in preparation for the prophesied End Time prophecies. Christians, Jews and Moslems all believe that the End Times are in progress, or about to occur. A large body of Christian believers in the U. S. are involved in these beliefs. The prophecies call for rebuilding of the Temple on the Temple Mount in East Jerusalem, but with the Moslems retaining their presence on the Temple mount with their Mosque and Dome of the Rock edifice. This can be done with construction on the only site that could have been the threshing floor that King David purchased for the Temple construction in about 1,000 BC. This is the site north of the Dome of the Rock.
Israel must also control all of the Christian and Jewish sacred sites in the West Bank. We have addressed this in some detail in the comments about Rabbi Sacks in England. The Jews and Moslems must agree to occupy the Temple Mount together in a way that will prevent interference with each other. The way this can be done is covered in the Rabbi Sacks commentary. The Moslems must not occupy East Jerusalem but they could have a walled or tunnel access to the Temple Mount from the West Bank outside of East Jerusalem.
The Jews have a full right to insist on their security and means to gain peace without U. S. political pressure and interference with their program for peace. Yet, the U. S. should immediately plan a strike on Iran with Israel to remove their nuclear capability. When Iran is no longer an effective supplier and supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah, true peace can be established with this incremental program to build up the West Bank economy and security from Iran and Hamas.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Peter Wedlund peterwedlund@yahoo.com This disagreement is very simple.  No one is telling Israel what it HAS to do.  Every nation is capable of making its own decisions.  North Korea is doing that right now and its closest ally China will deliver its own message to Kim Jung II, I am sure of that.  Obama hasn’t told Netanyahu what he HAS to do.  Obama has merely informed him if Israel wants US support, Israel needs to stop the settlements.  There is a strong reason for this US position I tried to explain, but it is an Israeli decision whether Israel wants to listen and cooperate with the US and understand our position and reasons or not.  The US position is simple, it is based our respect of private property and our belief that when you don’t respect the rights of others you are not encouraging cooperation and peace but rather hate, anger and fear.  Other than some fringe element, most in the US are not going to accept a position that God gave the land to Israel 3000 years ago so it still belongs to the Jews.  Possession is 9/10th of the law.  Can any Jewish settlers trace their family history and land ownership back 2,000 years? I don’t personally care if Israel cooperates with the US or not.  You are welcome to do whatever you want as an independent country.  The US isn’t going to take Israel on or invade Israel because it isn’t cooperating with the US peace efforts or doing what we think it should.  Rather, the US will simply take that $3 billion/yr in aid to Israel to pay off our national debt or redirect those resources toward nations more interested in working and cooperating to find solutions to conflicts.  The US will stop supporting Israel in the UN Security Council when it feels the actions and behaviors of Israel do not warrant its support and/or hurt peace efforts.  Israel can go its own way without further US help, I don’t think any US citizens would have a problem with that at all.  Just don’t assume the US should blindly support Israel both with foreign aid and diplomatic help while Israel simultaneously does virtually whatever it wants regardless of how it impacts the peace efforts in the Middle East.  If Israel decides to go find its own solution to the problem, please do.  Just don’t expect to receive any US help when your solution creates additional problems and concerns in the region.  There is a path to peace and a path to more conflict.  You choose the path you wish to take.  Most responsible nations believe the settlements are a deal breaker with regard to the peace efforts. It is true that Europeans did take over America after the Native Americans already controlled it.  Native Americans did not have any legal system for defining property rights, but certainly their presence was a justification for their legal claims to the land.  Most of the Europeans came in and divided North America up into areas they controlled.  The US actually purchased a large portion of that land from France in 1803. Florida was purchased from Spain in 1819.  The US also purchased Alaska from Russia in 1867. The only land that is part of the Continental US that was taken by war is the southern part which we took from Mexico in the Mexican-American war in the late 1840’s.  I know of no one who would argue that >150 years ago power and force were not the basis for making decisions about who controlled or owned what.  In spite of that, the US didn’t take most of the land we occupy now we purchased the vast majority of our present land mass from Europeans.  If your argument is that the policy of might makes right is still in effect today, I think most major nations in the world would disagree with that notion.  The leading powers in the world may be unable to enforce the land rights of nations, but most would not agree that a country has the right to conquer its neighbors and take their land.  This was the basis for US action in the first gulf war after Iraq invaded Kuwait.  Since WWII, the US has practiced an official policy of returning land taken from other nations and leaving nations when asked to leave by their elected officials.  The US has returned both Yokohama and Okinawa back to the Japanese that we took in WWII.  We removed our navy from the Philippians when that was requested of us by that government.  We have offered Puerto Rico independence on more than one occasion.  Israel needs to decide now which is worse, going it alone in the world, or trying to work with others like the US.  The fear mongering and the constant efforts to proclaim Armageddon should this or that happen needs to stop.  There is only one reason to encourage fear and that is to discourage open thinking and discussion of issues.  Obama is not trying to ruin the security of Israel.  He is trying to help Israel be more secure by finding a cooperative peaceful solution to the conflict.  Israeli’s can be part of the solution or they can be part of the problem.  Each nation makes its own choice.  I am confident the US will provide a detailed picture of how the choices Israel makes will affect the choices the US exercises as well.  We are talking cooperation, not control. Work with us or work against us that is Israel’s choice.  Just don’t think you can do whatever you wish and expect the US with a population more than 40 times that of Israel will simply say okay, whatever you want to do is fine by us we will support you.  This is the Obama administration, not the Bush administration. This disagreement is very simple.  No one is telling Israel what it HAS to do.  Every nation is capable of making its own decisions.  North Korea is doing that right now and its closest ally China will deliver its own message to Kim Jung II, I am sure of that.  Obama hasn’t told Netanyahu what he HAS to do.  Obama has merely informed him if Israel wants US support, Israel needs to stop the settlements.  There is a strong reason for this US position I tried to explain, but it is an Israeli decision whether Israel wants to listen and cooperate with the US and understand our position and reasons or not.  The US position is simple, it is based our respect of private property and our belief that when you don’t respect the rights of others you are not encouraging cooperation and peace but rather hate, anger and fear.  Other than some fringe element, most in the US are not going to accept a position that God gave the land to Israel 3000 years ago so it still belongs to the Jews.  Possession is 9/10th of the law.  Can any Jewish settlers trace their family history and land ownership back 2,000 years?

I don’t personally care if Israel cooperates with the US or not.  You are welcome to do whatever you want as an independent country.  The US isn’t going to take Israel on or invade Israel because it isn’t cooperating with the US peace efforts or doing what we think it should.  Rather, the US will simply take that $3 billion/yr in aid to Israel to pay off our national debt or redirect those resources toward nations more interested in working and cooperating to find solutions to conflicts.  The US will stop supporting Israel in the UN Security Council when it feels the actions and behaviors of Israel do not warrant its support and/or hurt peace efforts.  Israel can go its own way without further US help, I don’t think any US citizens would have a problem with that at all.  Just don’t assume the US should blindly support Israel both with foreign aid and diplomatic help while Israel simultaneously does virtually whatever it wants regardless of how it impacts the peace efforts in the Middle East.  If Israel decides to go find its own solution to the problem, please do.  Just don’t expect to receive any US help when your solution creates additional problems and concerns in the region.  There is a path to peace and a path to more conflict.  You choose the path you wish to take.  Most responsible nations believe the settlements are a deal breaker with regard to the peace efforts.

It is true that Europeans did take over America after the Native Americans already controlled it.  Native Americans did not have any legal system for defining property rights, but certainly their presence was a justification for their legal claims to the land.  Most of the Europeans came in and divided North America up into areas they controlled.  The US actually purchased a large portion of that land from France in 1803. Florida was purchased from Spain in 1819.  The US also purchased Alaska from Russia in 1867. The only land that is part of the Continental US that was taken by war is the southern part which we took from Mexico in the Mexican-American war in the late 1840’s.  I know of no one who would argue that >150 years ago power and force were not the basis for making decisions about who controlled or owned what.  In spite of that, the US didn’t take most of the land we occupy now we purchased the vast majority of our present land mass from Europeans. 

If your argument is that the policy of might makes right is still in effect today, I think most major nations in the world would disagree with that notion.  The leading powers in the world may be unable to enforce the land rights of nations, but most would not agree that a country has the right to conquer its neighbors and take their land.  This was the basis for US action in the first gulf war after Iraq invaded Kuwait.  Since WWII, the US has practiced an official policy of returning land taken from other nations and leaving nations when asked to leave by their elected officials.  The US has returned both Yokohama and Okinawa back to the Japanese that we took in WWII.  We removed our navy from the Philippians when that was requested of us by that government.  We have offered Puerto Rico independence on more than one occasion. 

Israel needs to decide now which is worse, going it alone in the world, or trying to work with others like the US.  The fear mongering and the constant efforts to proclaim Armageddon should this or that happen needs to stop.  There is only one reason to encourage fear and that is to discourage open thinking and discussion of issues.  Obama is not trying to ruin the security of Israel.  He is trying to help Israel be more secure by finding a cooperative peaceful solution to the conflict.  Israeli’s can be part of the solution or they can be part of the problem.  Each nation makes its own choice.  I am confident the US will provide a detailed picture of how the choices Israel makes will affect the choices the US exercises as well.  We are talking cooperation, not control. Work with us or work against us that is Israel’s choice.  Just don’t think you can do whatever you wish and expect the US with a population more than 40 times that of Israel will simply say okay, whatever you want to do is fine by us we will support you.  This is the Obama administration, not the Bush administration.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Marc Paige marcpaige@msn.com Thank G-d we finally have a president who DOES care about Israel, and is willing to push both the Israelis and Palestinians to the negotiating table. Unfortunately, Obama now has a right-wing government in Israel to contend with, as well as a terrorist Hamas organization in charge in Gaza, both making his task that much harder. All lovers of peace and a strong Israel need to support Obama’s efforts to end this conflict. Eight years of Bush/Cheney were a disaster for Israel and the Palestinians. Many Israelis now want to leave their country. We finally have a president who is willing to help save the Palestinians and Israelis from themselves. Thank G-d we finally have a president who DOES care about Israel, and is willing to push both the Israelis and Palestinians to the negotiating table. Unfortunately, Obama now has a right-wing government in Israel to contend with, as well as a terrorist Hamas organization in charge in Gaza, both making his task that much harder. All lovers of peace and a strong Israel need to support Obama’s efforts to end this conflict.
Eight years of Bush/Cheney were a disaster for Israel and the Palestinians. Many Israelis now want to leave their country. We finally have a president who is willing to help save the Palestinians and Israelis from themselves.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Paul Jeser fayepaul67@aol.com Yikes Mr. Wedland - what property rights are you talking about.  The Palestinians (and others) declared war on Israel - they lost - and they thus lost that land - they have no rights to that land. If you really believe what you wrote then you need to look at this map which shows what America would look like if it gave back all the land it won: http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/when-bibi-meets-obama.html Yikes Mr. Wedland - what property rights are you talking about. 

The Palestinians (and others) declared war on Israel - they lost - and they thus lost that land - they have no rights to that land.

If you really believe what you wrote then you need to look at this map which shows what America would look like if it gave back all the land it won:
http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/when-bibi-meets-obama.html

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Joyce Perkins jpnewera@bellsouth.net I want to clear up something about this land that Peter is talking about. This land belonged to Israel before it belong to anyone. The Arabs took it away from Israel and Israel was scattered from one end of the earth to the other. GOD promised that in the last days Israel would be brought back to their land and they would occupy that land until JESUS returns.  Just read the BIBLE and you will see that this is the COVENANT GOD made with Israel.  So this land rightfully belongs to Israel and when JESUS returns Israel is going to occupy all of the land with JESUS as their KING.  And all those who have parted his land are going to be taken care of also. I want to clear up something about this land that Peter is talking about. This land belonged to Israel before it belong to anyone. The Arabs took it away from Israel and Israel was scattered from one end of the earth to the other. GOD promised that in the last days Israel would be brought back to their land and they would occupy that land until JESUS returns.  Just read the BIBLE and you will see that this is the COVENANT GOD made with Israel.  So this land rightfully belongs to Israel and when JESUS returns Israel is going to occupy all of the land with JESUS as their KING.  And all those who have parted his land are going to be taken care of also.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Joyce Perkins jpnewera@bellsouth.net Israel will be signing a death warrant for their people if they do what Obama and Washington wants them to. Obama does not care about Israel. He just wants to look good to all the Arab countries at any cost. He does not care. Bibi needs to understand this. If he gives up this land to the PA, Israel will not have peace and he of all people should know this. Bibi needs to tell Obama and Washington to Shutup and but out, all of them. They are trying to black mail him into doing what they want and believe me it is to make them look good.  Why doesn’t Bibi insist that Obama sign a document that he will come to Israel’s defense if they give up land and get bombed or have rockets coming down on them all day every day. See what he has to say about this. All of Israel needs to PRAY about this as the real true Christians in US are PRAYING about this. Israel will be signing a death warrant for their people if they do what Obama and Washington wants them to. Obama does not care about Israel. He just wants to look good to all the Arab countries at any cost. He does not care. Bibi needs to understand this. If he gives up this land to the PA, Israel will not have peace and he of all people should know this. Bibi needs to tell Obama and Washington to Shutup and but out, all of them. They are trying to black mail him into doing what they want and believe me it is to make them look good.  Why doesn’t Bibi insist that Obama sign a document that he will come to Israel’s defense if they give up land and get bombed or have rockets coming down on them all day every day. See what he has to say about this. All of Israel needs to PRAY about this as the real true Christians in US are PRAYING about this.

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Peter Wedlund peterwedlund@yahoo.com In the US, Americans respect private property.  Allowing Jewish settlements to infringe on the property rights of Palestinians remains an anathema to most Americans and a violation of our Judeo-Christian values and laws.  It violates two the Ten Commandments directly – thou shall not steal; and thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s house or anything that is thy neighbor’s.  No American would tolerate such behavior by someone else toward their own land or accept the excuse “it’s mine now” or “I have to have land so I’m taking yours.” Americans call people who do that, squatters.  In the old Wild West days the land owner would give the squatters so many minutes to get off their land and if they weren’t gone they would start shooting/killing anyone who remained on their property.  Even when there was plenty of land, people did not have a right to just come in and settle on land owned by someone else.  If they did the property owner had a legal right to defend his property. It seems many Israeli’s still fail to appreciate just how strongly Americans feel about private property rights issues and how adamantly we feel about unwarranted Jewish settlements on Palestinian land.  Yet, the settlements continue and some in Israel continue to feel they have a right to take whatever land they want.  So long as that attitude remains and the Israeli government gives its tacit approval to this behavior the relations between Israel and the US will grow more and more strained.  There is absolutely no negotiation on this point.  Settlements are an act of expropriation of land already owned by someone else.  If Israeli’s want the land they need to purchase it from its present owners, not simply take it over.  If the Palestinians don’t want to sell the land, Israeli’s can’t simply ignore the rights of Palestinians and steal their land from them.  If they continue to do so they will find themselves without any US support. Perhaps the Israeli community needs a reminder of how Hitler regarded German expansion prior to WWII.  It was called “Lebensraum” or living room.  Germany needed to expand and thus had a right to take over neighboring countries.  The Western world has not forgotten either the justification or the consequences of this aggressive behavior by Germany.  The Germans had a sense of entitlement to take what they wanted not because it had a legal right to do this, but because it had the power to do it.  The Western world has not forgotten the outcome of that behavior.  As we now turn our attention to Israel we see this behavior being repeated on a smaller scale, but repeated none-the-less and with a similar justification and outcome.  These settlements do nothing but increase the tension, hate and anger of Palestinians.  Americans can empathize with the Palestinians on this issue because our laws have been based for over 200 years on Judeo-Christian beliefs of respecting private property rights.  These settlements reflect a behavior that most Americans find completely unacceptable.  They reflect acts that by design signify “I don’t care what you want, it’s all about what I want and I’m going to take what I want because I can.” That attitude will never be accepted by the vast majority of the US public.  It will always be seen precisely for what it is – an act of aggression and exploitation.  The Obama administration has passed that message on to Netanyahu and made it clear this issue is one that is not negotiable.  Settlements either stop or US support for Israel will be significantly curtailed.  The US is not going to support a rouge nation. The US can’t if it intends to work with others and support greater cooperativity among all nations.. In the US, Americans respect private property.  Allowing Jewish settlements to infringe on the property rights of Palestinians remains an anathema to most Americans and a violation of our Judeo-Christian values and laws.  It violates two the Ten Commandments directly – thou shall not steal; and thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s house or anything that is thy neighbor’s.  No American would tolerate such behavior by someone else toward their own land or accept the excuse “it’s mine now” or “I have to have land so I’m taking yours.” Americans call people who do that, squatters.  In the old Wild West days the land owner would give the squatters so many minutes to get off their land and if they weren’t gone they would start shooting/killing anyone who remained on their property.  Even when there was plenty of land, people did not have a right to just come in and settle on land owned by someone else.  If they did the property owner had a legal right to defend his property.

It seems many Israeli’s still fail to appreciate just how strongly Americans feel about private property rights issues and how adamantly we feel about unwarranted Jewish settlements on Palestinian land.  Yet, the settlements continue and some in Israel continue to feel they have a right to take whatever land they want.  So long as that attitude remains and the Israeli government gives its tacit approval to this behavior the relations between Israel and the US will grow more and more strained.  There is absolutely no negotiation on this point.  Settlements are an act of expropriation of land already owned by someone else.  If Israeli’s want the land they need to purchase it from its present owners, not simply take it over.  If the Palestinians don’t want to sell the land, Israeli’s can’t simply ignore the rights of Palestinians and steal their land from them.  If they continue to do so they will find themselves without any US support.

Perhaps the Israeli community needs a reminder of how Hitler regarded German expansion prior to WWII.  It was called “Lebensraum” or living room.  Germany needed to expand and thus had a right to take over neighboring countries.  The Western world has not forgotten either the justification or the consequences of this aggressive behavior by Germany.  The Germans had a sense of entitlement to take what they wanted not because it had a legal right to do this, but because it had the power to do it.  The Western world has not forgotten the outcome of that behavior.  As we now turn our attention to Israel we see this behavior being repeated on a smaller scale, but repeated none-the-less and with a similar justification and outcome. 

These settlements do nothing but increase the tension, hate and anger of Palestinians.  Americans can empathize with the Palestinians on this issue because our laws have been based for over 200 years on Judeo-Christian beliefs of respecting private property rights.  These settlements reflect a behavior that most Americans find completely unacceptable.  They reflect acts that by design signify “I don’t care what you want, it’s all about what I want and I’m going to take what I want because I can.” That attitude will never be accepted by the vast majority of the US public.  It will always be seen precisely for what it is – an act of aggression and exploitation.  The Obama administration has passed that message on to Netanyahu and made it clear this issue is one that is not negotiable.  Settlements either stop or US support for Israel will be significantly curtailed.  The US is not going to support a rouge nation. The US can’t if it intends to work with others and support greater cooperativity among all nations..

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00 Comment by Paul Jeser fayepaul67@aol.com I wish that members of APN & J Street would move to Israel.  Until then they should just shut up. They don’t pay Israeli taxes, they don’t fight in its wars - yet they think they have the same ‘rights’ as Israelis! They make me sick to my stomach! The fact that they don’t understand that the only ‘settlement’ the Arab nations want destroyed is the settlement of Israel proves how out of touch with reality they are. These people do nothing but strengthen those trying to destroy Israel and have blood on their hands. They should be ashamed of themselves! I wish that members of APN & J Street would move to Israel.  Until then they should just shut up.

They don’t pay Israeli taxes, they don’t fight in its wars - yet they think they have the same ‘rights’ as Israelis! They make me sick to my stomach!

The fact that they don’t understand that the only ‘settlement’ the Arab nations want destroyed is the settlement of Israel proves how out of touch with reality they are.

These people do nothing but strengthen those trying to destroy Israel and have blood on their hands. They should be ashamed of themselves!

]]> 2012-05-23T;03:01:00-05:00