Gaza, the fridge in Gilo and moral responsibility http://blogs.jta.org/ENTRY_PERMALINK_HERE/gaza-the-fridge-in-gilo/ JTA’s Ron Kampeas unpacks and debunks the charge of disproportionality being applied to Israel’s Gaza operation. en-us rkampeas@jta.org Copyright 2009 2009-01-02T;16:19:00-05:00 Comment by Neal Levy neal@rabincenter.org.il Excellent! No one has come closer to expressing my own feelings....  I am sick and tired of the simplistic, bad guys vs. good guys picture being painted by the media and the bloggers—here in Israel it’s as if there are no dilemmas, no doubts… and abroad, as you correctly point out, Israel is always the villain.  Kudos to you for posing the questions instead of preaching the answers, as so many of your colleagues do.... Excellent! No one has come closer to expressing my own feelings....  I am sick and tired of the simplistic, bad guys vs. good guys picture being painted by the media and the bloggers—here in Israel it’s as if there are no dilemmas, no doubts… and abroad, as you correctly point out, Israel is always the villain.  Kudos to you for posing the questions instead of preaching the answers, as so many of your colleagues do....

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by Lynda lyndakraar@aol.com For those who doubt that Jews perpetually live in wait of the gallows, your gallows humour demonstrates that we come by it most honestly. If this piece wasn’t so downright Efraim Kishon I’d have to say it’s upright Carlebach. Thanks for your perspective. Some of us out here really need it. For those who doubt that Jews perpetually live in wait of the gallows, your gallows humour demonstrates that we come by it most honestly. If this piece wasn’t so downright Efraim Kishon I’d have to say it’s upright Carlebach. Thanks for your perspective. Some of us out here really need it.

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by Paul Winter winfamly@bigpond.net.au Only the wilfully blind would fail to see that unlike in Darfur, no-one in Gaza is starving. The people are if anything plump and they are move vigourously. Kampeas wrongly criticises “collective punishment”, which in its original use referred to the Nazi murders of innocents in a locality where people faught against them. Where villagers celebrate the terrorism of some of their neighbors, a shut down is neither collective punishment, nor an undeserved response to their identification with evil. Only the wilfully blind would fail to see that unlike in Darfur, no-one in Gaza is starving. The people are if anything plump and they are move vigourously.

Kampeas wrongly criticises “collective punishment”, which in its original use referred to the Nazi murders of innocents in a locality where people faught against them. Where villagers celebrate the terrorism of some of their neighbors, a shut down is neither collective punishment, nor an undeserved response to their identification with evil.

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by Bill Z ccdogpark@yahoo.com What’s the difference if we starve the Gazans or kill them with bombs ?  They are still going to die. The only difernce I see is that the outside world complains less when we starve them. What’s the difference if we starve the Gazans or kill them with bombs ?  They are still going to die.

The only difernce I see is that the outside world complains less when we starve them.

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by Ira Herson ira@ihug.com.au Great article, can I say that like others’ comments it reflects much of what I feel and think. Hamas has shown that by placing their rocket factories and launching equipment in populated areas they have complete comtempt for the people of Gaza. I also agree that if Hamas wanted the best for the Gazans they would be building infrastructure instead of weapons. I think it was Golda Meir once said “ there will be peace when they love their children more than they hate us” Great article, can I say that like others’ comments it reflects much of what I feel and think.

Hamas has shown that by placing their rocket factories and launching equipment in populated areas they have complete comtempt for the people of Gaza.

I also agree that if Hamas wanted the best for the Gazans they would be building infrastructure instead of weapons.

I think it was Golda Meir once said “ there will be peace when they love their children more than they hate us”

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by richard dent drumguy123@gmail.com Very thoughtful piece.  I support Israel,imperfect as it is, and the unique “standard” to which it is supposed to adhere is manifestly unfair.  Yet as the author points out, some of these tactics have never worked.  The “sanctions/embargo” needs to be substantially loosened.  The general population of Gaza, having been fed only one side of the story for decades, will never blame Hamas for shortages of life’s basic necessities.  What’s the point? Very thoughtful piece.  I support Israel,imperfect as it is, and the unique “standard” to which it is supposed to adhere is manifestly unfair.  Yet as the author points out, some of these tactics have never worked.  The “sanctions/embargo” needs to be substantially loosened.  The general population of Gaza, having been fed only one side of the story for decades, will never blame Hamas for shortages of life’s basic necessities.  What’s the point?

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by ASC asc@njjewishnews.com Who exactly, except perhaps for Sarkozy, is blaming Israel for a “disproportionate” response? I’m not being cheeky—I’ve been trying to find the serious people who are making the charge ("serious" in the sense that they are able to shape the opinions of people who matter. Don’t ask me what I mean by “matter."). Even the Wolcott piece is less about “proportionality” than it is about the efficacy of large-scale military action on Gaza. I think we Jews have an easier time battling the proponents of “disproportionality” than we do discussing the aims and tactics of the war. The result is that too many of us tilt at strawmen like the “proportionality” crowd and refrain , as you say so well, “from asking questions.” Who exactly, except perhaps for Sarkozy, is blaming Israel for a “disproportionate” response? I’m not being cheeky—I’ve been trying to find the serious people who are making the charge ("serious" in the sense that they are able to shape the opinions of people who matter. Don’t ask me what I mean by “matter."). Even the Wolcott piece is less about “proportionality” than it is about the efficacy of large-scale military action on Gaza.

I think we Jews have an easier time battling the proponents of “disproportionality” than we do discussing the aims and tactics of the war. The result is that too many of us tilt at strawmen like the “proportionality” crowd and refrain , as you say so well, “from asking questions.”

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by R.D. Eno rdeno@fairpoint.net So what would a “proportionate” response look like—or have looked like, the moment to apply it having passed?  Probably much like the targeted strikes that Israel has carried out from time to time over the last several years, to very little discernible effect.  With an election looming, the urge was overwhelming and irresistible to do something decisive, or that at least gave evidence a decision had been made.  I think it’s impossible to imagine a “proportionate” response that would amount to more than a gesture—though, of course, the attacks from Gaza are themselves gestures and hardly unendurable (so far).  But where power is distributed disproprotionately, so that fanatical minorities, for private benefit, can undermine public will and hold whole polities hostage, what hope is there for any sort of proportionality?  That’s not a rhetorical question. So what would a “proportionate” response look like—or have looked like, the moment to apply it having passed?  Probably much like the targeted strikes that Israel has carried out from time to time over the last several years, to very little discernible effect.  With an election looming, the urge was overwhelming and irresistible to do something decisive, or that at least gave evidence a decision had been made.  I think it’s impossible to imagine a “proportionate” response that would amount to more than a gesture—though, of course, the attacks from Gaza are themselves gestures and hardly unendurable (so far).  But where power is distributed disproprotionately, so that fanatical minorities, for private benefit, can undermine public will and hold whole polities hostage, what hope is there for any sort of proportionality?  That’s not a rhetorical question.

]]> 2009-11-06T;20:43:00-05:00 Comment by Ruth Adar ruthadar@gmail.com Thank you.  Listening to the radio, reading my email, I’ve been fuming at the rhetoric.  I don’t have answers but this article comes closer to expressing my own feelings than anything else I’ve read. Thank you.  Listening to the radio, reading my email, I’ve been fuming at the rhetoric.  I don’t have answers but this article comes closer to expressing my own feelings than anything else I’ve read.

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