Sarah Palin’s looming pastor problem?
The 2008 campaign has already offered one object lesson in what happens when the press starts looking into your pastor's sermons. Now it's Sarah Palin's turn to come under the microscope.
Less than three weeks ago, on Aug. 17, Palin's church, Wasilla Bible Church, hosted a talk by David Brickner of Jews for Jesus (audio here, transcript here).
Palin's pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner by calling Jews for Jesus "a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing demanding area of witnessing and evangelism." Jews for Jesus is the same group the ADL accused of "aggressive proselytizing with a deceptive message: that Jews who accept Jesus as the son of God and their savior remain Jewish."
Brickner then spoke for about 30 minutes about his group's successful effort to introduce Israelis to Jesus. More on that in a second.
After Brickner's talk, the congregation took an offering for JFJ, and then Pastor Kroon offered this prayer:
We stand before you as a people who've experienced your grace, and we acknowledge that that grace was first extended to our people through your people, the Jews; that there is not a one here in this room who would know Jesus and serve him if there had not been a Jew, generations ago, that spoke Jesus' name to our people. Father, that comes full circle and we wish to extend your grace back to your people. And we pray and we ask that as a result of this time here, and as a result of this offering, there will be people among the Jews today who come to say the name "Jesus" with faith.
On the surface, not all that different from the Catholic prayer for Jewish conversion, whose revival aroused great concern in the Jewish community and nearly railroaded Pope Benedict's recent visit to New York City. In the end, he visited a synagogue and the Vatican gave some signals that this was a wish for the end of times, not the beginning an evangelical effort aimed at Jews.
It's going to be near impossible for the Palin camp to follow that road map after listening to Brickner's sermon, with its effusions over his group's success in Israel.
Here's his description of playing music in Jerusalem with his evangelical band The Liberated Wailing Wall:
Now, most Israelis are secular. And they were drawn by the music, and we had t-shirts on that said "Yehudim L'man Yeshua" (Jews for Jesus), so they knew who we were; but that was ok. They were enjoying the music; some were clapping. There were some that were even dancing off to the side. I thought to myself, "Boy, this is great! We're preachin' the gospel right here on the streets of Jerusalem."
Brickner talks about what he calls the "Jerusalem dilemma," essentially the apparent conflict between the fact that Jerusalem has been the site of so much religious revelation and also the nexus of so much war and bloodshed. The reason? Israel's rejection of God's messenger:
But what we see in Israel, the conflict that is spilled out throughout the Middle East, really which is all about Jerusalem, is an ongoing reflection of the fact that there is judgment. There is judgment that is going on in the land, and that's the other part of this Jerusalem Dilemma. When Jesus was standing in that temple, He spoke that that judgment was coming, that there's a reality to the judgment of unbelief .... And Jesus' words have echoed down through the centuries. Not a generation after He uttered this promise, Titus and his Roman legions marched into that city and destroyed both the city and the temple ... Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When Isaac was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment—you can't miss it.
Isaac is Brickner's son, who just came back from a proselytizing trip to Israel and India. In India, he targeted Israeli backpackers on holiday after completing their army service. For Isaac, it was life-changing:
And for me, that personally has changed my life, making me realize how much God has a plan for each and every one of us, and how much we all need to witness to our fellow unbelievers; and for me, as a Jewish person, to my fellow unbelieving Jewish family.
No word yet on whether Palin was present in church on Aug. 17, but we'll find out. We're also trying to find out more about Pastor Kroon's apparently long connection to Brickner – Kroon says the pair go back to the 1970s – who was making his second appearance at the church. In his first appearance, in 2004, Kroon said: "If it were not for Jews for Jesus, I would not be standing here."
ADL chief Abe Foxman – whose organization has criticized Jews for Jesus as "deceptive," who called on Barack Obama to confront his "black racist" minister, and who called the Catholic prayer a "body blow" to relations with the Jews – told JTA Tuesday he didn't have much problem with Palin's pastor. For one, evangelicals, unlike Catholics, never promised to renounce proselytizing. For another, they don't have the same sort of history of violent persecution of Jewish non-believers. For one more, there's no evidence Palin knows or shares those views.
"If you could tell me that she approves of this guy, she invited him, I'm not aware of any of that," Foxman said. "The fact that she belongs to a church that believes in it, I don't have a problem."
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Carl:
“Don’t know what scriptures you are reading”
Jonah. All of it. You attributed to it words that aren’t there.
“Jonah verse 17 gives all the information that even a child could understand.”
Only a child would believe that.
“If you dispute that then Matthew chapter 12 verse 40 also makes reference to it.”
Irrelevant.
“I did not command you to leave this site. I said “IF YOU DON’T LIKE THIS SITE THEN LEAVE” caps for clarity. A command is “STEVE YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE LEAVE!” See the difference there.”
Let me clarify. This is JTA’s site, which I like just fine for its news coverage, and for the opportunity it provides for readers, even those I disagree with, to comment on articles. If you have your own site, you may run it as you wish and block comments you don’t like. But this is not your site. You essentially told me to shut up about your blathering, or leave. That is a command that it not yours to give. Your quibbling about your own words is meaningless.
“You have alot of vitriol toward Yahweh and Yahushua.”
You seem to have the vitriol, toward anyone who doesn’t accept your interpretation of scripture, and resents your preaching of your religion to Jews. Tough.
“You will bow when he returns and declare him king of kings and lord of lords.”
Ain’t gonna happen.
“May Yahushua open up your eyes and save you.”
Apply that to yourself. If *you* can’t deal with reactions to your nonsensical preaching, that is your problem, not mine. If you don’t like the fact that JTA gives me the same opportunity to comment that it gives you, that too is your problem, not mine.
Steve,
I don’t have any problems. I am merely stating facts. This will be the last post I have for you as I grow weary of the nonsense. I welcome the fact that JTA gives you the same opportunity to post as I have. There is a fact that I do have to state though. This opportunity to post comes from the freedom of those who have put their life on the line for freedom. I can proudly add my name to that list.
Deuteronomy 4:35: “Atah har’eta lada’at ki Ad-noi hu ha’Elokim ein ‘od milvado.” Translation: “You [the Jews] are the ones who have been shown, so that you will know, that Ad-noi is the Supreme Being, and there is none besides him.” Have a nice day.
Just so there will be as little ambiguity as possible, Deuteronomy employs the name YKVK (singular), which we pronounce Ad-noi (Master of All) out of reverence. G-d is one, and there is no unity comparable to his unity. As for Yeshu being the “deber” of YKVK—he is, in fact, cattle disease. Thanks, Tim, but no thanks.
Yehoshua, you terribly discredit that name of yours. It is not to me, but to YHVH that you will have to answer.
Now, despite the evidence I have offered from the Hebrew scriptures throughout this thread, you persist in blaspheming His Name. That is pure foolishness on your part. And no, YHVH, is not “singular,” but is in fact triune. I’ll demonstrate by offering just a few of several available examples:
For example, see Isaiah 48. In the first fifteen verses of Isaiah 48, you will see that the individual speaking, both through Isaiah as well as directly at times, is a) YHVH, b) our Moshiach (Savior), c) our Goel (Kinsman Redeemer), etc. Yet, when we reach verse sixteen, the SAME individual, who is YHVH, suddenly states, “And now the Lord God has sent Me and His Spirit.” Well, there you have it. YHVH sends YHVH and His Ruach! Indeed, He IS triune. In the case of Isaiah 48, it is the pre-incarnate (before taking on a human body at the virgin birth) Yeshua Himself who is speaking through Isaiah and directly via The Holy spirit in the first fifteen verses, and He identifies Himself as our God (YHVH), Savior (Moshiach) and Kinsman Redeemer (Geol). After that, in verse sixteen, He states that The Lord God (Adonai El) has sent Him and His Spirit (Ruach). Well, that is EXACTLY what we read throughout the New Testament. So, Yehosua, you are a blasphemous fool. You should prefer to be wise rather than a fool!
And, God is a Plurality. Why do you suppose, Yehoshua, that He is called Elohim (a plural word) throughout the Hebrew scriptures? He is El (one Personality in the triune Godhead) and Elohim (the unified, triune Godhead).
And, God stated, “Let Us make man in Our image” very early in Genesis (the first book of the Torah). God is Father, Word, and Holy Spirit, and we, as human beings, are body, soul (mind/word) and spirit. WE ARE TRIUNE BEINGS, Yehoshua. Indeed, we are made in God’s image.
And, Echad is a unified one, wheras yachid is an indivisible one. God, in the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4), is referred to as “Echad” and NOT as yachid: “Hear O Israel, The Lord our God, The Lord is One [Echad]” (Adonai Echad). God is a unified One, just as our Messiah Yeshua stated: “I and My Father are One” (the Greek word in the New Testament where Yeshau stated this is likewise for a unified one and not an indivisible one). So, once again, the New Testament scriptures perfectly agree with the Hebrew scriptures.
Thus, Yehoshua, when you are prostrate before God to answer for all your words against Him, it is Yeshua before whom you will find yourslef; for His enemies will made His footstool.
Do you really want our Messiah, Savior and God (YHVH) named Yeshua to crush your head as He shall do to all His enemies on that day when God The Father (YHVH) makes His enemies Yeshua’s footstool? Rather, “Yehoshua,” you should choose wisdom over foolishness and bow your knee and head to Him now that you may live rather than be cast down to Hell! Now, doesn’t that sound much better to you? It absolutely SHOULD!
Oh, and you should change your name so long as you blaspheme our Messiah, Savior, and God!
Steve,
As I said before, you seem to be a liar. You say you clicked my link, but I have not posted a link.... So, to what link are you referring? Or did you just make that up?
i was looking for a leaflet on G-D’s feast days and stumbled a upon this. i don’t care for religion heated debates. i myself love my neighbor (as best as i can). i have felt drawn to His feast days and not the ones i grew up entertained by. i am looking for inexspensive
brochures or pamphlets-tracts if you will…
to share with my intrigued friends. Thanks for suggesting some publishing info. Mj
Tim,
Actually, the word echad in the Shema’ signifies an even more radical unity than yachid, namely that nothing exists apart from him.
As for the passage in Isaiah, we don’t confuse the prophet with his prophecy (numerous times, Moses speaks in G-d’s name as if he were the speaker). As for the “virgin” birth, the Jewish Messiah emerges from an entire series of dubious unions (e.g. Lot and his daughters, David and Bathshevah, Amram and Jocheved—Miriam gives rise to David on one of the maternal lines). This process is necessary to fool the Satan, convincing him that he has nothing to fear from the descendants of such “fallen” ancestry (i.e. that he has already “been there, done that). The Satan has great claims against a person who tries to be too lily-white, too pure. As for the name Elokim, the plural signifies that G-d disposes of a variety of powers. As for our being triune beings, the soul has five levels (life force, spirit, soul, living essence, and unified essence). If we include the body, perhaps we are sextune beings. I have a strong feeling that this is a dialogue of the deaf, but I need to set the record straight for anyone else who might
be reading this.
As always,
Yehoshua
Tim wrote
“Steve,
As I said before, you seem to be a liar. You say you clicked my link, but I have not posted a link…. So, to what link are you referring? Or did you just make that up?”:
What the hell is wrong with you, Timmy? Can you see your name is in blue at the bottom of your message? That marks a link, in this case to a site about you and your books, Timmy. The only way it could be there is if you typed it in, Timmy.
Get your meds fixed.
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Carl
09/10/08 06:08 PM
Don’t know what scriptures you are reading there but Jonah verse 17 gives all the information that even a child could understand. If you dispute that then Matthew chapter 12 verse 40 also makes reference to it. So i would like to see the information you are reading. I did not command you to leave this site. I said “IF YOU DON’T LIKE THIS SITE THEN LEAVE” caps for clarity. A command is “STEVE YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE LEAVE!” See the difference there. You have alot of vitriol toward Yahweh and Yahushua. You will bow when he returns and declare him king of kings and lord of lords. May Yahushua open up your eyes and save you.