Sarah Palin’s looming pastor problem?
The 2008 campaign has already offered one object lesson in what happens when the press starts looking into your pastor's sermons. Now it's Sarah Palin's turn to come under the microscope.
Less than three weeks ago, on Aug. 17, Palin's church, Wasilla Bible Church, hosted a talk by David Brickner of Jews for Jesus (audio here, transcript here).
Palin's pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner by calling Jews for Jesus "a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing demanding area of witnessing and evangelism." Jews for Jesus is the same group the ADL accused of "aggressive proselytizing with a deceptive message: that Jews who accept Jesus as the son of God and their savior remain Jewish."
Brickner then spoke for about 30 minutes about his group's successful effort to introduce Israelis to Jesus. More on that in a second.
After Brickner's talk, the congregation took an offering for JFJ, and then Pastor Kroon offered this prayer:
We stand before you as a people who've experienced your grace, and we acknowledge that that grace was first extended to our people through your people, the Jews; that there is not a one here in this room who would know Jesus and serve him if there had not been a Jew, generations ago, that spoke Jesus' name to our people. Father, that comes full circle and we wish to extend your grace back to your people. And we pray and we ask that as a result of this time here, and as a result of this offering, there will be people among the Jews today who come to say the name "Jesus" with faith.
On the surface, not all that different from the Catholic prayer for Jewish conversion, whose revival aroused great concern in the Jewish community and nearly railroaded Pope Benedict's recent visit to New York City. In the end, he visited a synagogue and the Vatican gave some signals that this was a wish for the end of times, not the beginning an evangelical effort aimed at Jews.
It's going to be near impossible for the Palin camp to follow that road map after listening to Brickner's sermon, with its effusions over his group's success in Israel.
Here's his description of playing music in Jerusalem with his evangelical band The Liberated Wailing Wall:
Now, most Israelis are secular. And they were drawn by the music, and we had t-shirts on that said "Yehudim L'man Yeshua" (Jews for Jesus), so they knew who we were; but that was ok. They were enjoying the music; some were clapping. There were some that were even dancing off to the side. I thought to myself, "Boy, this is great! We're preachin' the gospel right here on the streets of Jerusalem."
Brickner talks about what he calls the "Jerusalem dilemma," essentially the apparent conflict between the fact that Jerusalem has been the site of so much religious revelation and also the nexus of so much war and bloodshed. The reason? Israel's rejection of God's messenger:
But what we see in Israel, the conflict that is spilled out throughout the Middle East, really which is all about Jerusalem, is an ongoing reflection of the fact that there is judgment. There is judgment that is going on in the land, and that's the other part of this Jerusalem Dilemma. When Jesus was standing in that temple, He spoke that that judgment was coming, that there's a reality to the judgment of unbelief .... And Jesus' words have echoed down through the centuries. Not a generation after He uttered this promise, Titus and his Roman legions marched into that city and destroyed both the city and the temple ... Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When Isaac was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment—you can't miss it.
Isaac is Brickner's son, who just came back from a proselytizing trip to Israel and India. In India, he targeted Israeli backpackers on holiday after completing their army service. For Isaac, it was life-changing:
And for me, that personally has changed my life, making me realize how much God has a plan for each and every one of us, and how much we all need to witness to our fellow unbelievers; and for me, as a Jewish person, to my fellow unbelieving Jewish family.
No word yet on whether Palin was present in church on Aug. 17, but we'll find out. We're also trying to find out more about Pastor Kroon's apparently long connection to Brickner – Kroon says the pair go back to the 1970s – who was making his second appearance at the church. In his first appearance, in 2004, Kroon said: "If it were not for Jews for Jesus, I would not be standing here."
ADL chief Abe Foxman – whose organization has criticized Jews for Jesus as "deceptive," who called on Barack Obama to confront his "black racist" minister, and who called the Catholic prayer a "body blow" to relations with the Jews – told JTA Tuesday he didn't have much problem with Palin's pastor. For one, evangelicals, unlike Catholics, never promised to renounce proselytizing. For another, they don't have the same sort of history of violent persecution of Jewish non-believers. For one more, there's no evidence Palin knows or shares those views.
"If you could tell me that she approves of this guy, she invited him, I'm not aware of any of that," Foxman said. "The fact that she belongs to a church that believes in it, I don't have a problem."
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My apologies for addressing the preceding message to Tim, rather than its actual author Carl.
So much amateur twisting of bad translations of the Hebrew scriptures just makes my head spin sometimes.
Steve,
There again, no one is disputing the truth that churches are taking known pagan holidays and twisting them to serve Yahweh. Instead people have to try and be condescending and the like. Instead of trying to be that way, why not be civilized and have a discussion like an intelligent human being and maybe learn some things from each other. The condescension and immature level that people stoop to, to try and look intelligent and godly is a real disgrace.
Carl:
I don’t consider twisting of the Hebrew scriptures, or using this site to push your brand or any other of Christianity to be serious or courteous or in any other way appropriate. The Jews don’t need your preaching.
Heed your own words: “The condescension and immature level that people stoop to, to try and look intelligent and godly is a real disgrace.”
The man who made the offensive comment was a GUEST SPEAKER from Jews for Jesus. Palin’s pastor holds Jews in high esteem and on Israel said this, “I know of no other nation that has been through what that nation has been through and yet against all odds continues to survive.” Stop trying to make a moral equivalent between Palin hearing one speech by a confused former Jew and Obama, who for 2 decades considered his Israel-hating, Farrakhan-loving pastor, Jeremiah Wright as a second father.
Yael,
You are far from a peaceful individual given the vitriole and hate you espouse. In fact, you are remarkably intolerant, and hateful toward Christians, and especially an Israelite Christian. What are you afraid of, Yael? Could it be that you have built your house of cards on lies? Could it be that your brand of “Judaism” is a lie? Yes, indeed Yael, that is most certainly the case.
And, you are equally wrong in asserting that no one has come back from the dead, Yael. Our God, Savior, and Messiah Yeshua has done exactly that; He rose bodily from the grave, having raised Himself (i.e., His human body) from the dead after three days and three nights. But, if you knew The God of Israel, Yael, you would likewise already know that Yeshua is our risen Messiah and Moshiach!
Yael, you come across as someone who, by the world definitions you presumably espouse (e.g., the hate crimes and genocide thinking in the United Nations) would be guilty of both hate crimes and genocide were you given such opportunities. That is not the way of the God of Israel, Yael. He is a God of love, not the hate you espouse.
Yael, I recommend you take a good look at yourself and your life. You are the opposite of a servant of The God of Israel. But it does not have to remain so, Yael. You can REPENT and BELIEVE in our God and Savior, Messiah Yeshua, and in so doing, receive forgiveness of your sins and save your soul from the eternal fires of Hell (Gehenna and Sheol). But, if you will not, Yael, then at the point when you die it will be forever too late for you.
Think about it, Yael. You can make a choice for The God of Israel, whose name is Yeshua, and in so doing receive eternal life, or you can remain as you are until you burn in hell forever. I recommend you REPENT, Yael. Now, doesn’t that sound compelling to you, Yael? It absolutely SHOULD!
Steve,
For the record, you continue to try to defend yourself from THIN AIR. I imagine it goes without saying, but that is NO DEFENSE AT ALL. Hyperbole also is not a defense.
And, you claim you have seen my web site. Really? For the record, what site is that, Steve? (I ask because I think you are lying on this point too.)
Hi Carl,
I want to clarify and correct some of your points. First, Christianity is BIBLICAL, and the Greek New Testament is The God of Israel’s written Word just as much as the Hebrew Old Testament is. Second, it is simply incorrect to broad-brush all Christians as individuals who do not observe God’s Holy Days, the biblical Sabbath (sundown Friday to sundown Satruday on our Western calendar), etc. In fact, there are Christians who observe God’s Holy Days, the biblical sabbath, etc., though they are in the minority today. Also, to assert that Christianity is pagan is equally false. There is a real difference between New Testament Christianity and what is commonly called Christianity today in terms of practice (holy days, sabbaths, clean versus unclean foods, etc.), but not in terms of the fundamentals of the Christian faith (biblical Judaism).
And, unlike you Carl, I write this as one who IS an Israelite. I have an etire DVD series on biblical interpretation in which I cover these issues in detail, as well as a volume on biblical interpretation (Hermeneutics) in my upcoming “Messiah, History, and the Tribulation Period” series.
Also, there is much revelation and other teaching in the New Testament, Carl, that greatly clarifies and enhances what is revealed in the Old Testament. The New Testament is, again, inspired scripture, and as such is profitable for reproof, doctrine, teaching, etc.
Don’t bad-mouth your Christian brethren, Carl, in a way that makes you sound biblically ignorant. The Church does have a long way to go today, on the whole, in terms of returning to its Jewish roots, but those roots are found throughout the New Testament.
Carl,
You ask me, “What about the discrepancy in Matthew chapter 1. Read about the genealogy of Yahushua and see if you can tell me what the discrepancy is.” And then you go on to say that the “rapture” will not be pretribulational and assert that “we disagree.” I’m not sure where you are coming from on the latter, Carl, as I have nowhere in this thread said what my views are on the timing of the “rapture.” And you certainly didn’t get the notion that we disagree from my site nor from anything I’ve written.
On your question, “What about the discrepancy in Matthew chapter 1. Read about the genealogy of Yahushua and see if you can tell me what the discrepancy is.” I don’t see this as a discrepancy in Matthew 1; in fact, I address the lineage issues in my series, “Messiah, History, and the Tribulation Period,” and others besides me have likewise addressed the supposed discrepancy to which you refer. I suggest that you research this further, and if you still don’t find an answer that satisifies you, then come back here and post your question directly and I’ll address it directly.
As for the timing of the rapture, it will be posttribulational, and I have the most thorough and detailed teaching on this ever put forth by anyone in the Church. I have a DVD set entitled “The Real Rapture,” which is the most powerful presentation on the timing of the rapture ever given to the Church as well; it is based upon a volume in my upcoming “Messiah, History, and the Tribulation Period” series. Entire churches, Carl, have been turned from a pretirublational view to a posttribulational view from my “The Real Rapture” presentation alone. So, Carl, I don’t see that you and I disagree on this point.
As for the paganism of Christianity, Easter, etc., well you are correct on those points as well. But these are not things that are fundamental to the Christian faith, Carl. When Yeshua returns, He will correct these errors for the new Millennial Church, but at this point in history, it is a matter of majoring on things that while important are relatively minor.
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Steve
09/06/08 10:12 PM
Tim:
Daniel 9:27 is
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If that’s not clear, Tim, maybe this will help
??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????; ???
?? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ?????????? ?????????????? ??? ??????????????;
??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???????????? ??? ????? ???
???????????, ???? ??? ?? ???????????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??????????
???? ??? ??? ???????????
Which is to say, nothing like your description.
Don’t swim with sharks, Timmy.